95 - Modern Idols: What Owns Your Heart?

What owns your heart?

When most people think of idolatry, they picture ancient temples, carved statues, and pagan worship. But Scripture paints a much deeper picture. An idol is anything that becomes more important than loving God and doing what is right—even good things that quietly take first place in our lives.

In this episode, we explore how modern idols often hide in plain sight: control, routine, providing for our families, success at work, financial security, family itself, and even our reputation. None of these are inherently wrong. In fact, many are good gifts from God. But when they become more important than obeying Him, serving others, or doing what is right, they've become idols.

Using passages like Colossians 3:5, Matthew 10:37, and 1 Timothy 5:8, along with the stories of Demetrius, Jonah, and the Pharisees, we discuss how our strongest emotional reactions often reveal the desires we've elevated above God. We also wrestle with why men, in particular, can tie their identity to providing, achievement, and control—and how those good desires can quietly become destructive when they define our worth.

Whether you've never considered the idols in your own life or you're actively trying to follow Christ more faithfully, this conversation will challenge you to honestly ask: What owns your heart?

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Transcript

Welcome And Setting The Theme

Jon 0:04

Welcome to the Exorder Podcast, where I am disturbed love and good works through bite-sized biblical discussion. Destruction. No, come on. We haven't done that in weeks. Okay. Um, okay, so we're we're we've been talking a lot of male-centered topics here, and I think that we're gonna continue that one with another one. And Nate, I think you've got it. What?

Nate 0:27

M-A-L-E. M-A-L-E.

Jon 0:29

Yeah, M-A-L-E, yeah, because we're men. Um, and so we're gonna continue that a little bit, but women, don't run away, don't be afraid of this one. I think there's the whole kind of purpose of this is to try to understand ourselves a little bit better as men, and then how we can interact with you, and how you can support us, and we can support you, and all these kinds of stuff. Okay, great.

A Riot In Ephesus Sets Up

Jon 0:52

Nate, okay.

Nate 0:53

So I want you to imagine you're in the city of Ephesus in the first century. The gospel is spreading rapidly through the efforts of one particular man named Paul, and people are are leaving their idol worship and they are becoming Christians. And a man named Demetrius, who just so happens to make idols for a living, gets all of the silversmiths together and says, Hey guys, we're losing our livelihood to this guy Paul and his teachings about Jesus. And he starts a riot in the city to try and protect his livelihood, this worship of Diana, Artemis of the Ephesians and their idol worship. Demetrius starts a riot to protect it. So I guess my my question for for us here is what would you start a riot to protect?

Jon 1:56

First, I want to say that's a lovely story. Still super engaged. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I'm hooked. Okay, all right.

Nate 2:04

Well, I forgot your question though. Uh thanks. Good. It was not for anything. Uh, what would you start a riot to protect?

Jon 2:14

Uh, my family. Okay.

Nate 2:15

Yeah. Good answer.

Kyle 2:17

Uh, well, the Trailblazers have a new owner, and I'm getting serious Clay Bennett vibes. And if you're not from Seattle, then I'll tell you Clay Bennett is the jerk who came in and bought the Sonics saying, I'm not gonna move the team, and then moved him to Oklahoma City. And we hate him forever, and he's a traitor and a jerk in a meeting. And so the new owner for the Trailblazers is like downsizing and firing a bunch of people, and also is like, I promise I'm not gonna move the team. And if he's gonna move the team, I would riot to keep Portland Trailblazers in Portland. Is that why you hate the Thunder so much? Well, that and because Shay is SGA, he's ruining basketball.

Jon 2:56

Yeah, yeah. That guy ruined I can't do basketball. Come on, man.

Nate 3:01

Here's um we're talking about Yeah, I've seen him play, that's very true. Uh we're talking about being men, right? Basketball is manly. Um

When Control Becomes An Idol

Nate 3:11

here's the right reason why I asked that question. What would you cause a riot for? Because it might be an indicator of something that is an idol to you.

Jon 3:21

Yeah. What way to way to catch us on that one, buddy? I mean Oh, you didn't know that that's where I was going? No, I didn't know what you're doing. I guess.

Nate 3:31

I guess maybe I so I I wanna I want to um share a little story with you guys um about something that um I think is an idol for me, and I I think that um other men struggle with this too. I think Giona struggled with it, and I'll talk about that in a little bit. So uh a few weeks ago, my wife um came down with a cold. She was down for the count for a couple of weeks. Um, and she wasn't able to do the things that she's normally able to do around the house, you know, feeding the kids and me and and uh doing the laundry and the the dishes like she normally does. Uh am I being too No, it's your routine, isn't it? Uh well, okay. Oh, you're reading my screen here. I'm not um so um uh to be quite honest, I'm embarrassed to say this, but uh I got frustrated. Um I actually got angry, and my wife picked up on that, and we had um more than one deep conversation about this. And uh what stood out to me about this like Is that your euphemism for a fight?

Kyle 4:38

Deep conversation.

Nate 4:40

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I guess it is. Yeah.

Kyle 4:43

Okay, carry on.

Jon 4:44

Uh uh discussion.

Nate 4:46

We we had a uh emotional disagreement. Emotion-filled discussion, an emotion-filled discussion. So so we discussed this, and um I was prompted to look inside and figure out why I was angry and why I was frustrated about this thing my wife had no control over getting sick. And I realized it's because it messed with my routine, it threw off my expectations, and it pointed out the fact that I really didn't have the control that I thought I had. And uh I realized in that moment that I had made that sense of control my idol. That's what I wanted. I wanted things this certain way, and they weren't that certain way. And as a result of that, I became angry and frustrated with my wife.

Jon 5:38

Now the trick is to like Kyle and I is um it's like Hulk. The trick is to have no routine and no expectations. Just don't have a routine. You just have no expectations from day to day that anything's gonna turn out the same way that you expect. I'm just one of you. But I mean, that's I think everyone's got something. So I see what you're cluing in on here is everyone's got something that messes with their expectations, yeah. And that kind of will show your priorities and show your, you know, what you what you cling to, kind of what we you you place a lot of uh dependence in.

Nate 6:17

Yeah, what you value. Yeah. And one of the things that stood out to me was um the fact that I had a strong reaction to that clued me into, all right, Nate, you need to look deeper. What is the issue behind this? Kyle, what what are some things that might get under your skin, um make you

Defining Idolatry With Scripture

Nate 6:40

angry?

Kyle 6:41

I'm kind of curious how you define idolatry. What what qualifies as an idol?

Nate 6:47

So in this case, I put what I wanted above what was needed for my wife. I need to serve my wife, take care of her, provide for her, do what is right by her. That's a God-commanded thing to serve others. And I was not doing that because I didn't get what I wanted. I had made what I wanted more important than what God wanted, i.e., serving others, my wife. Therefore, what I wanted to take control of the situation was my idol.

Jon 7:23

So it's like put no other gods before me.

Kyle 7:27

Yeah. Well, Colossians chapter 3 in verse 5 says, Therefore, put to death your members which are on the earth, fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. And so I find that to be pretty helpful. That covetousness or other translations will say um greed and just simply equate that to idolatry, which is covetousness, which is idolatry, according to Paul. And so I I find that to be pretty consistent with what you just said. It's it's when you desire something or are greedy for something that you think should be yours, maybe that's a bit of a pride issue too.

Nate 8:11

Uh-huh.

Kyle 8:12

Um, but when you allow that to become your central focus, when you desire when you desire or covet that, um, pretty much when it's not God, it's a problem.

Nate 8:22

Yeah. So uh one of the things I think men struggle with is um we want to have a sense of control, and when we don't get that control, it causes us to make poor choices. One of the biblical figures that represents this idea, I think, is Jonah. God wanted Jonah to go preach to Nineveh. Jonah didn't want to preach to Nineveh. He runs away, swallowed by a fish, spits him up. He goes and he eventually preaches to Nineveh as as God told him to do, but but ultimately he throws a fit because he doesn't get what he wants initially, which is uh he didn't want to go preach to Nineveh. Um and so Jonah put his desire for control of the situation above what God wanted and and he runs off. And uh I I think it's good for us to realize about ourselves we want to have control over situations, but we don't always have control over the situation, and that doesn't give us permission to act out in whatever ways we want to.

Jon 9:28

No, I and I think I do this a lot with I I do this under the veil of good things. Yeah. Such as like work as a deacon. I get and and I think that um preachers do this a lot too, and it's kind of like a preacher thing where it's you're putting the efforts and you're kind of valuing the efforts for the whole of more people, like a whole congregation, over the family and and that kind of dynamic. Oh, right. And I think that I can do this sometimes. I get caught up in the need for something to go right, or even like, hey, I'm dip I like to go do coffee with brethren and I like to do things with brethren. It's a benefit for them and myself. And I feel like when I can't do that, because maybe my wife is working late, or I mean, like she's per she's doing like another portion of the providing here. But if it cuts into some of those routines and those things that I want to do because I have I believe that there's value in that, uh-huh, I justify it because of its scriptural value or or relational value to members and stuff. And I think it does if it has the same outcome, it's can still be an idol. Yeah. Even that's the hard one too. It's hard when the idol is a good a good thing. It's a good thing, you know, in in context, you know.

Nate 10:52

You could take that to the next level because, you know, like providing for your family, which we're gonna talk about here, is a good thing, but can you put too much emphasis on work?

Jon 11:01

No, I've I've done that in the past too, where I had a job I really liked and I really enjoyed going. And it was easy to spend 12 hours there when I was technically only salaried to pay, you know, eight. Um, but you know, I would justify in certain ways. But I just it it was it was enjoyable work. Yeah. At the end of the day, it didn't provide the best. It wasn't everything, it was more something I enjoyed, and I I kind of balanced it, you know. And I think making that shift was ultimately positive for my relationship with my wife and my family, and putting them first and the needs of the family first over something that I I really enjoyed, like a job. And I think that that can be a that can definitely be a um a piece for for men. Either the what you get from it, either the value of the actual work that we enjoy or the value of the money that we get from the Montero game. I think that's a huge one for us men.

Nate 11:56

Yeah. Let's go there.

Jon 11:58

Let's go there.

Provision Money And Male Identity

Jon 11:59

Yeah.

Nate 11:59

So another another um idol I think us men have or can have is um our ability to to provide. Um I looked up some statistics on this, and unemployment and financial struggle lower self-esteem and trigger depression in men in a way that simply doesn't happen for women. For women, financial hardship is painful. For men, it attacks identity. These are from um, I believe it's the University of Wisconsin, did some studies on this. Basically showing that financial strain has an effect on men different or more prominently than it has on women. It it goes to our our ability to provide. First Timothy five and verse eight talks about the importance of providing for our family. Let me read that. But if anyone does not provide for his relatives and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. We're commanded in scripture to provide for our families. This is an important thing. There was a time in my married life where I was not providing to the degree that I wanted to, and it gave me an inferiority complex. I would come to church and I would avoid talking to certain people, certain other men, because I felt as though I were inferior to those men. And I withdrew from those conversations, and there's a lot of good that comes from talking with other, uh, what you might call successful or productive men. There's a Proverbs 27, 17 effect. Iron sharpens iron. There's that effect that happens when we're with each other, and I was withdrawing from that and the benefits that that could be to myself and to my family. Why do you think I was withdrawing from that?

Jon 14:03

It was uh it's kind of a it's hard to look yourself in the mirror at that point. It's kind of like you're you all you see is the what the greener grass over the fence. Yeah. All you see is your own insecurities and your own failures. I I get that.

Nate 14:18

And it wasn't that I wasn't able to provide for my family. Yeah. We had um, you know, plenty of food on the table, clothes on our backs, a roof over our head, like all of the things that someone would would look at and say, you know, that uh is that person providing? The answer was yes. But it was my expectation in my head of what provision should look like. And it should look like a lot more than that in my mind. And so I idolized my ability to provide. And because I wasn't reaching what I wanted it to be, I became this self-pity person, thinking, oh, woe is me, look how terrible I am. When the truth was, no, that wasn't the case. I was providing what was needed for my family.

Jon 15:13

I have the feeling that this is more common than it is not common. I mean, if you take like 10 to 20 men, not all of them are finance people, right? Not all of them have master's degree and amazing, you know. And so I feel like this is probably then again. I I if you don't have this issue and you are very comfortable in your own shoes and what you're congratulations. I want to be more like you because I I feel like this is probably pretty common. Like I I have that sense, I don't have a degree, yeah. And so I always feel like I have a cap. It's like, well, do I spend money, time, and effort away from my family to go to get something to to bolster it in the future? Is anything valuable in the world of digital design? It's not, and so I always have that kind of sense of of uh not FOMO, but like of uh insecurities, like you said, you know. Um no, I get this one. I never shunned you for it, but thank you. No, no, I mean I I don't I I don't know that I've recognized it what its reaction is in my life, though. Like you you've you've identified that, but I haven't been aware of if if I'm reacting to that in a certain way or not, but maybe I have, you know.

Nate 16:29

I think it's a good thing for us to know about ourselves. Um that it it's we have an innate need to want to provide, and if we're not providing to the degree that we want, that can really affect our uh self-esteem.

Jon 16:42

But I would say I have always felt that Kyle had the best job anyways. Which is preaching. Yeah. I mean, I if I'm gonna be envious of something, I think it would be of like just the the idea of you know sitting around not doing anything all the time.

Kyle 16:58

Well, like David, jealous of the birds that nest in the courts of the temple.

Jon 17:02

So no, I I think I've said this before. Uh your guys' ability to to preach and in Kyle's role in your head, you should have a good sense of confidence about that and appreciation for that. Because I I don't know if other people feel that way, but I definitely feel like that's the most meaningful job you can do. And if you can do it and provide for your family, then you got the best situation. But uh hopefully you guys feel that way. Hopefully, Kyle, you feel that way that you're happy about your work and you know. Sure. No, you put me on the spot here. But I mean, yeah, hopefully you feel that way. But I can understand, like I mean, we all feel we've all felt that same way, right? That Nate's Nate's talking about. I wouldn't say I'm I'm proud. Uh-huh. Are you satisfied? I'm very satisfied. Yeah, with my job.

Nate 17:50

There we go. Yeah. Prideful satisfaction. So I think there's a flip side to that coin, right? I talked about um idolizing my ability to provide and not not living up to that. But I think the flip side to that is um earning more and then having certain financial goals and being laser focused on those to the exclusion of serving others the way that I ought to. Um, so for instance, um, and if my wife listens to this, she's gonna say, aha! Um, whenever I want to buy something, even if it's expensive, I always find a way to make it happen. And then when my wife wants to buy something, it's always this big long conversation about why it's really difficult for us to find the money to do that thing that she wants to do. Um, why? It's because I'm being selfish. Um, I am idolizing what I want more so than what I what she wants. And uh what she wants is just as important, uh, or sometimes more important than what I want. And so in that way, I struggle on the opposite side with finances. Um having the ability to get something and um and yet holding back from uh my wife wanted having to get that thing or wanting to get that thing, being able to.

Jon 19:15

Oh, this is just a love letter to uh to your wife here. This is a great episode.

Nate 19:18

Well, these are the the easiest ones. You guys ever ever struggle with that? Like um your spouse or your kids want something that's expensive and it gets in the way of what you want, and and then you have to make that decision.

Jon 19:28

No, I I'm just the opposite. I never get anything I want.

Nate 19:32

I'm in the same boat.

Jon 19:33

Okay, well, this is this truly is a short episode. Never mind. I'm a terrible person. No, no, no. Forgive me. I just believe no, I the feeling is still there. I I feel resentful that way. Yeah, even though the reality is, is I probably don't get those things. I mean, I still feel resentful about it.

Kyle 19:53

Yeah, I've wanted a I've wanted a cheap, junky, barely running Jeep for the last 20 years, and I still feel like yeah, I could do the math. Well, Jessica got this and she got this, and we bought her this, and we paid for this, and that was her idea to do this vacation. And it's like, when do I get my thing that I want? When do I get my old junky?

Nate 20:14

Yeah.

Kyle 20:14

It's not even that expensive, you know. I start justifying it and rationalizing it. So even though I don't have it, I think that's the point of an idol, is it doesn't necessarily have to be something you have, it's just something something that I want, and I find myself becoming bitter about it, and I don't even have one.

Jon 20:29

It's a distraction to what's important.

Nate 20:31

Yeah. So I think that's

Selfish Spending And Resentment

Nate 20:34

a danger, and and we should uh I think we should be aware of that.

Kyle 20:37

Well, John, what was your answer to the question at the very beginning about what would you riot for?

Jon 20:44

I said family. And I can that be an idol? Oh, I can. Yeah, it can be. I think that just like what I had mentioned earlier, it's it's one that's ex generally excusable for because of a positive. That's a good exact example. Matthew chapter 10.

Kyle 21:02

Matthew chapter 10 and verse 37. He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me. And he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. He who does not take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me. He who finds his life will lose it. He who loses his life for my sake will find it. And I know sometimes I I I've seen it. People can get caught up in uh family vacations and trips and the point where it's like, I haven't seen that family in a long time at church. And what's family time? It's you know, weekends are family time, and we just Yeah. Can can family become an idol? Can hundred percent. Can it be something where you can get so caught up in your family that you really are oblivious to others around you in your church and your community that maybe have needs, but you're just so caught up in in uh family and and in the goings on inside your family? And the answer isn't to turn against your family or but yeah, so I I th that's one that John brought up at the very beginning that I thought.

Jon 22:03

Yep. And that's funny because that's the difference between values and attitudes. Sometimes what we value or we say we value, we don't show with our attitude. We don't show with our actions. So I mentioned it was my family, but yet I sacrifice sometimes time with my family to do things for something else. So that's the that's the thing about it not matching up. We can say we value X, Y, Z, but it's not always done through our actions. And so that's interesting. Yeah. Very self-reflective this episode. Way to go, buddy. Good. Well, that's the that's the that's the point of this.

Kyle 22:40

And we all made a choice to go see a movie this weekend and bring our kids, and I think we learned a valuable lesson. Yeah, I know.

Nate 22:51

Okay. Last last point here. Reputation is what other people think of us. And um

Can Family Become An Idol?

Nate 22:57

this is something that can become an idol. We can put this ahead of what is right. And I'll tell you two ways in which I've done that. Um I like to laugh, I like jokes, and sometimes I like jokes that are a little bit off-color. You gentlemen know that. Uh in Ephesians 5, chapter 4 talks about um not making bad jokes. Uh I'll be honest, sometimes I've made those because I get the laugh, I get the approval from others, and uh and I know that's not the right thing in that situation. Um, and so that's that's one area where I think I've made my reputation or my uh getting approved by others um an idol. Uh and the same thing, it's the same idea with sharing the gospel, tell you what I mean. Sometimes I don't speak up um because of the fear of being labeled as that weird Christian guy. And uh again, I am more concerned about what others think of me than I am about doing the right thing. Now I don't want you to think this is me all the time. This is sometimes these things happen. And I'm sharing these things because it's easy to put our reputation. What I mean by that is what others think of us above what is right, because doing the right thing is oftentimes is more difficult than doing the easy thing.

Jon 24:30

Um yeah, I feel that but for a different angle because I think I fall into the trap of wanting myself and my family to feel buttoned up a lot more than maybe we do. Uh the language that we use and how we talk to each other and how we interact with things. You know, I I want to put a good foot forward, and I think that that's actually probably how a lot of other people maybe fall into their reputation being an idol because they are worried that their reputation might be sullied by uh things. And I think that that can go against the compassion and the understanding and the value of you know not being too hard on your kids and teaching them and you know through love and not through being so worried that other people you know what other people say or think and stuff and and shaming them, you know, for something. My kids are generally you know well put together. But we all feel that a little bit, right? We all want to be protective of that. Now, I do think that is me being protective of them and their

Reputation Approval And Fear Of Witness

Jon 25:31

character and my character. So I do think that it's still it can still become an idol, even though I think it's a positive thing. There's there's lots of positive things that can be idols, you know. You take them too far and they can't take them too far and you value them over other things like compassion.

Nate 25:48

John 12 43, for they love the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God. The Pharisees did a lot of good things, right? But they put some things ahead of God's things, and that was not right.

Jon 26:01

And their name will forever be associated in a negative fashion.

Nate 26:06

So the point of this episode, short and sweet, is to identify what are some of the idols that we make in our lives. Control over situations? Do we make our ability to provide an idol? Do we make our reputation what other people think of us an idol? Do we put that before or above what is right? Uh and so I would encourage you all to think about what are the things in your life that you have made more important than what is doing or than doing what is right?

Jon 26:46

Well, thanks, Nate, for this uh topic. This is really great, and I'm glad I'm really enjoying this series. You know, I like it because it's very introspective. Um, I'm always, you know, I want to be challenged. I think we want to be challenged, we always want to be better. We always want to be better at what we're doing, and I think this is a good one to hold up a mirror and kind of see about our lives what might be idols to us. Where are we, what are we placing before God? What are we placing before other priorities in our list and our roles as men? Where are we letting like last week's the pride, the arrogance kind of get ahead of us? And I think it's good to be ever mindful of that. And this isn't just, you know, a manly thing, this is something we all do, everyone does, and so um I just think that uh we see it more because it's from our perspective. So um I want to thank you again, Nate and Kyle, for this episode. Thank you for listening and following us through this uh podcast.

Final Questions Takeaways And Share Request

Jon 27:42

Uh, if you enjoyed it, you found any value in it, we would love for you to share it. And if you didn't, we would love for you to share that too, and just give us some feedback, let us know what you thought about it, and maybe extend the conversation offline so or online. So we thank you, and we'll see you next time.

Kyle 28:02

We need we need more followers, we need more listeners. Do we? Like, you know, like our value is derived from getting listens and views, so we need you to do this.

Nate 28:12

If that was the case, we should have stopped this. I'm proud of what we've done. I think it's fine. We're off. We're great. We have the greatest season four podcast. We're season four. It's the best podcast ever. People say it's number 57 on the list, it's really number one, and they're stupid.

Kyle 28:26

Yeah, we're we're the quick we're the fastest rising what is it, religious podcast in California. Yeah. Are we really?

Jon 28:35

I mean, why not? Yeah. I just said it. Fastest rest. That's how Did we take the blue pill? That's how marketing works, buddy. Just say things. If you listen to one podcast, we know it's still excel still more. But if you listen to a two podcast, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for listening. Maybe we'll bring some women on another time. Ah, I don't want to say that because I don't know that I want to.

Nate 28:59

I won't maybe edit that part out.

Jon 29:02

We we'll we'll go ahead and do some uh female center topics later on, and I'll tell you what's wrong with you as well. Don't worry. And next week, any of this.

Nate 29:11

I wish that we could.

Jon 29:13

Okay. Do you have any are your eyes open enough? Are you gonna make it through? This is this is rough. It's a rough day.

Kyle 29:20

It's a rough day. I don't remember a little bit of the middle of that episode. I am really sorry. I tried so hard. I tried so hard. You're good.

Jon 29:29

I thought you were I thought you were just giving me faces like your eyes were rolling. Like I thought I thought, wow, no one's connecting with what I'm saying right here. He's rolling his eyes back at his face. Like with the combination of the temperature and the You have the fan only on you for Kyle. You'll make it, brother. I know. Well, Nate. Some days are rough. I get that it works best for you guys. No, no, I get this.

Kyle 29:50

Well, it's it's it's one of those things. Like they I was reading a book about ultra marathons, and they this this guy, he's one of the best ultras uh runners ever, and he was helping his buddy paced him the last like 40 miles of this hundred-mile race, and the guy was in the lead, and um they were like within 20 yards of the finish line. He's like, E buddy, you won it, you won the hard rock hundred, and and then he just collapsed right there. Like mentally, once he was kind of out of it, but once he thought, like, oh, I won, it's like his body was only going on because, but like once his once his mental side knew, like, oh, the race is over, his body's like, we're done. And he like helped him up, and his buddy got disqualified because he helped him across the finish line. And so he's like, Yeah, and it's like that stung, that stuck with me for the rest, you know, for the rest of my life that that I cost him that race. But and I'm kind of that way on Sundays, like once the sermon is done, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. My body is just like, okay, I get it. We're done for the day. Yep. And so I just I I gotta get myself more psyched up and maybe a bunch of Red Bull for our next recording session.

Jon 30:56

That's ironic that you would say that. Yeah. I collapse mid-sermon and he does it after sermon. That's right.