90 - Are Your Words Honoring God? with guest Kevin Clark

Are your words honoring God—even in everyday conversations? In this episode, we’re joined by Kevin Clark from Birmingham, Alabama, to discuss how our speech reflects our hearts and how small, intentional changes can have a significant impact on our homes, relationships, and walk with Christ.

We explore what it looks like to speak with grace, use biblical language naturally, and even step into moments of prayer when the opportunity arises. Along the way, we introduce five simple questions to help filter your words so they are true, loving, timely, and edifying.

Our words aren’t accidental—they reveal who we are and who we serve. This episode challenges us to be more mindful, more intentional, and ultimately more Christ-centered in the way we speak.

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Thanks for listening!

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Nate 0:05

Welcome to the Exhorter Podcast, where we aim to stir up love and good works through bite-sized biblical discussion. We've got uh a guest with us today, Kevin Clark. Uh, and uh we're we're glad to have you, Kevin. Glad you're here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh John, I think you're gonna you're gonna bring in our topic and and uh we're gonna talk about it.

Jon 0:27

Yeah, I chose this topic because I felt like well we're working on this material for a Bible class, and then I felt like hey, there's some overlap with the subject matter that Kevin's bringing us uh this weekend. And so I might ask some questions about how you know how it ties in

Jon 0:41

with those. But essentially, let's start off with have you ever said something, Nate? Um, and immediately wished you could take it back. Why why did you choose me? I assumed it would land. Oh.

Kevin 0:54

He's trying to work through something.

Nate 0:56

Oh yes, yes. I have said things before that as they were coming out of my mouth, I didn't I would like to take that back.

Kyle 1:03

I one time told my wife she was being hysterical.

Jon 1:06

Oh, yeah? One time. Yeah. That's not Kyle. We know that's not the word. Okay. Uh uh Well, I mean, most of us know that moment, and we've all kind of been there. A conversation becomes tense. Yes, someone says something that irritates us before we really think about it, uh, response slips out. Um, maybe sharper than we intended to, uh, maybe more defensive than we meant. And almost instantly we realize the words probably didn't even help the situation at all. Sometimes the damage is small, other times the words linger, and careless moment can stay with us for some, sometimes for years. Um, words spoken in anger can create wounds that take a long time to heal. And so I would I like to talk about is words uh and why words matter uh specifically. So when why do words slip out so quickly when emotions rise, do we think?

Nate 2:05

Ooh.

Jon 2:06

Why do you why do you think why do you think we when when our emotions get uh tense or we get real elevated, why do you think words just kind of Well my my Vulcan upbringing is telling me that that emotion is the opposite of thoughtful logic, and so they're at odds with one another.

Kyle 2:23

So emo emotion is not always a bad thing. God has emotion, and our emotions are based off of God and one aspect of how we're made in his image, but emotions are hard to bridle. And yeah, you know, James chapter three is gonna be the whole chapter about that, just how difficult that is to bridle.

Nate 2:41

Well, and sometimes it's it feels very satisfying to say whatever it is that comes up when you're uh upset, angry, whatever it is. There's that thing where I could really get back at this person if I just said that. Right. And it's hard, it's hard not to sometimes in that moment.

Why Anger Makes Us Lash Out

Kevin 2:58

Right. Let me jump in on that because I do think the emotion that gets us in trouble the most is anger. I'm not sure that some of the other ones are so susceptible to this problem, but when we get angry, we lash out and our filter is gone and we tend to say what's on our minds, right? It's just hard to go through that screening process that we typically do when we have a more sober, somber frame of mind. And you just say it and it's out there, right? And uh it's very difficult. So anger is probably more of a problem than any of the emotions.

Jon 3:25

Yeah, and I would agree. And and so uh in the in especially those ones, inflict wounds. So why do verbal wounds linger longer than we expect? I I think they do. I mean the premise I'm saying is I I believe they do, but why do we think that that happens?

Kevin 3:42

Well, one thing that bothers me, you've heard this before as a kid, sticks and stones may break my bones with words and never hurt me. And it couldn't be anything further from the truth because these things affect the psyche. They're psychological, right? Physical wounds, you experience them, they heal, they go away. Psychological wounds can stay around for decades.

Jon 4:00

Yeah, self-per uh perception of ourselves, uh your your your identity. Yeah.

When Home Becomes A Battlefield

Kyle 4:05

He beat me by half a second with the sticks and stones. I was going there. Let's go there. Sorry about that, bro.

Jon 4:10

We'll give you credit in the aftercredits. Well, that's it's kind of like let's let's talk a little bit how words shape relationships. You know, words can wound deeply or they can strengthen someone greatly. Right. Sometimes the place where wounds matter most is in the place where we guard them the least. Right. That's so true. Our homes. That's so true. Right. And the way we speak to a spouse, a parent, a child can shape the tone of an entire household.

Kevin 4:37

Absolutely.

Jon 4:38

And a careless remark can discourage someone with love, while a thought word, a thoughtful word can strengthen them more than realize. How many, how many times have you noticed people growing up in very um tenuous households where words were weapons? Yes. Uh they I don't know. I I feel like they're kind of it's kind of like uh being shell-shocked. Like they tend to hear words and take more offense quicker, and they seem to find it harder to uh assume positive intent from people and to lean in on the positiveness. And so I I feel like that kind of uh environment where we are just we're not living guarded, right? So much better for that two days period. Are you yelling at you know less? You know, you you getting frustrated less and verbally?

Kyle 5:34

Well, I'm learning a lot about John's uh maybe I mean those relationships where we're the most vulnerable in marriage where they Taylor, yeah, I I got a lot of dirt on John. And yeah, as I like to point out, you know, between John and his wife, you know, I loved him first. I knew him before she did, but she knows she knows more about you than I do. And and so you're vulnerable to her. And I'd say the inverse of that is true. You know more about her than any of her friends, or or like that. So you make you so vulnerable. But John, that that illustration of bringing guests into the house, I often think about that when I come to First Peter chapter 3, uh, when he says in in verse 7, it tells me this isn't a new uh or a 21st century problem. But 1 Peter 3 in verse 7, he says, Husbands likewise dwell with them, that's your wives, with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel as being heirs together the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered. And that idea of giving honor. That's what you show to a house guest. Someone walks in or knocks, you know, knocks on the door, your your kids open it up, and it's it's a friend or something, and they they're invited to come in. You you pause the TV, you mute it, you get up from your chair, you go greet them. That's showing honor. And Peter has to remind husbands don't you do that when you are wooing your girlfriend or fiance. Right. Right. And maybe that lasts and and you coast through that in the first year, but it's it's a tendency to uh I got the ring on the finger, I gotta stop trying to get it. And Peter has to remind you, don't don't quit treating her with honor.

Kevin 7:09

Right. Well, let me throw something out here that that I don't want to defend people being unguarded, but there is a sense of truth of this. We spend so much time being very careful in what we say in our jobs, and very careful about what we say to our church members, and maybe very careful what we say to our neighbors. And the nice thing about home is you feel like, ah, I can relax a little bit and I don't have to worry so much about everything I say and it's going to be misinterpreted and taken the wrong way. And won't people give me some grace? And I think that's what lulls us into a sense of complacency when it comes to our loved ones. And we say things to them that we would never say in the workplace, we would never say in the neighborhood, we'd never say at church. But I understand that I'm not saying it's right, but I understand this notion of I'm tired of being on guard with everything I say out in the world. Here's the one refuge, a haven where I can just be myself and let my hair down, say whatever I want.

Jon 8:04

Yeah, I totally identify with this because I'm I'm not the most eloquent in speech out at work in other places. Uh that's why I do a podcast so I can edit all the bad stuff out, you know, as long as I'm not in real time. He re-records his lines so I haven't done that in a few in a few episodes, a few seasons, seasons, seasons. Okay. Um, but my point is is I I totally identify with the idea of not needing to be so careful with my words and being able to actually talk through things and say things and maybe not all the words that I say be judged and as hurtful or as ill intent. And you would think that the most comfortable place and safe place to do that would be with your spouse who should be leaning in to love and and and not assuming the the negativity of those things because we're men and we're not going to communicate as well as women do in that way, as careful.

Kyle 8:58

I wouldn't say as well. I would just say we're not gonna communicate as frequently or and there goes our third women listener.

Jon 9:06

So here we go.

Kyle 9:07

John, this is this is what we try and instill in our children. We always try and teach our kids that if you get caught doing something you know you shouldn't have done, you will be in trouble. If you come and tell us, you'll still be in trouble, but it'll be much less. Yeah, yeah. And and I want them to feel like they can come talk to me, even about things that they're they're worried about telling me. Right.

Jon 9:26

You're you're talking about creating that safe space, isn't it? Yeah.

Kyle 9:29

So in marriage, yeah, we should have that. We'd like to have the same thing.

Jon 9:32

But you can't have that, you can't assume and have that expectation without conversation. Right, right. The problem is when you have that assumption and you have that that the idea, but you haven't identified that safe, I hate saying safe space, but you know what I mean? But you haven't talked to your spouse and saying, hey, uh it's this reciprocated, you can do the same thing with me, and I'm not gonna rush to judgment. Right. Like you have to know that it is. You can't just assume because you put a ring on it, right? And because it's in your home, that you it should be there. Well, um, you have to account for it.

Nate 10:04

So, how do you avoid some of those issues that come up when you're gonna have like we don't have answers in this podcast?

Jon 10:08

We're all about theory and what I'm gonna do.

Nate 10:10

I I'll ask fewer questions and make more statements. Um how do you ensure that when you're gonna have a difficult conversation uh with your spouse or with uh you know, your kids or whoever, right, that uh you can be open with what you're going to say. Right. How do you how do you do that?

Build Trust Before Hard Talks

Kevin 10:29

Yeah. You know, I would say one of the things you do is the relationship that you have that precedes that conversation. So if you're very, let's take your kids for a sec, if you're very engaged with them, you spend a lot of time, you take them to the movies, you take them bowling, you go to ball games and things like that, you've developed this friendship, this rapport, this uh relationship that gives you more leeway to say those kind of hard things that is true than if you never spend time with them and you're always busy or gone. And they're like, Who are you to tell me this stuff, right? And that's true for any human relationship. The deeper the relationship, the more latitude you have. I I'll give you an example. There was a brother one time that uh was having a lot of difficult things going on in his life. And when things would come to me, I would go to him and I would say, Hey, brother, you tighten up on this. And this happened maybe two or three times in a row. And about the third or fourth time, he said, you know, brother Clark, you're right. I do need to change this. But have you ever noticed that the only time that you talk to me is when you're pointing something out that's wrong? And the first thing you want to be is defensive, like, hey, how dare you talk to me like that? And then I thought about it, I was like, he's dead right. Yeah, he's right. I only, I mean, what if I had taken him out to lunch? What if I'd gone to a ball game with him? And what if we'd just spend time talking more about life in general, then he would have received that criticism a little bit better than when I'm only talking to him when I'm pointing out something wrong. And so maybe that's the same dynamic with our kids.

Nate 11:51

Have you heard of the analogy of the emotional bank account? Yes, exactly. That's exactly what it is, right? You say, you know, if if all you ever do is make withdrawals, you know, you've you've got an overdrawn emotional bank account with that person. Absolutely. You know, I noticed this with my class in teaching that uh am I talking too much, John? No, economics.

Jon 12:11

Yeah.

Nate 12:12

I'm not even gonna talk about economics.

Jon 12:13

I'm gonna talk about students. Yeah, no, no, I just with the bank account thing. Oh, oh, with the bank. Sorry, I used to work in a bank too. How amazing, how amazing you and and insightful you are about the economic side of things.

Kevin 12:28

Let the record reflect that I'm not criticizing you for that. No, no, no.

Nate 12:31

Thank you, Kevin. No, we'll talk later. I'll take it to cover.

Jon 12:33

I'm only half I'm only half frustrated because I think it's an amazing analogy.

Nate 12:36

I just you know, anyways, with with my students, when I'm going around just like correcting them all the time, which is a part of what a teacher does, and and not um telling them what a good job they are doing, I have more behavior issues. Yes. But literally, I have started doing something where when I notice anything good, I don't care what it is, one kid said thank you to another, one kid said please do another, you know, whatever he smiled at him or said, you know, nice shoes. Any little thing I can possibly say, hey, I liked how you did that. Right. That was great. Right. And then sometimes I'll even throw extra credit their way. But here's what I've realized. You celebrating in mediocrity, is that what you're doing? Uh no, John. You're you're not in my class, so I'm gonna throw it. I thought you were gonna throw it. I got you. Okay, all right. Coming later. Um, get less silly here. What I've noticed is that that class in particular works really well together, and I don't have problems with them. Other teachers do. Yes. And it's because I think it's because I'm saying words that are putting um value into the emotional bank account. Yeah, you're investing in it. Yes, that's all you're doing.

Jon 13:41

Okay, economics reference. There you go. There you go.

Nate 13:45

I'm proud of you from the non-economist.

What Words Reveal About The Heart

Jon 13:47

Well, let's take this a little bit further because uh when it comes to the assumptions of things, um, a lot of times, have you ever used this excuse for saying something or have you heard this excuse where it is um that's not what I was meant. Right? Like you've used and so, but the problem is is we know from even scripture, if we go to Matthew 12, um, verse 34.

Kevin 14:10

Right.

Jon 14:12

It says, uh, you brood of vipers, how can you speak good when you are evil? For of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Right. And from that we say that what comes from your mouth reveals what's happening inside your heart. You can't, you can't a lot of times I think that we want to separate those things or you want to give like some sort of caveat to that, but you really can't. And so if if you are having those harsh words or they're wrong words, or whatever it is, and you really don't think that's what you meant or you said, you probably should just take a second to look inside. You you may have not wanted and intended to say it that way, right? But that's a lot different than not feeling those words. And I think that that's one of the things we need to think at. Words reveal uh the heart.

Kyle 14:54

That's right. This gets to uh one of our earlier episodes about your locus of control, as we feel like our circumstances dictate our language or justify our language. You know, I I smashed my thumb with a hammer, so of course, you know, expletives are gonna come out. I can't help it. Well, that that feels like a cop-out. You're you're saying you're a victim to your circumstances. Now, when I went to college in Florida, I never really experienced um cockroaches. We don't have them up in Portland very much. And I knew they're down there, and my uh the building I was living in, it was two years away from being demolished. It was played out, and there were lots of cockroaches in there. And I knew that if I turned on the lights, they'd scatter. So before I went in my dorm room, I would reach through the door, crack it open, flip on the lights, and wait about 20 seconds for them to dissip dissipate. And then I'd go in and tell myself, there's no cockroaches in here. And you know, we're kind of like that, where we think we can fool ourselves in thinking, I got no problems in my heart. As long as the lights on and circumstances are ideal, I'm good. I'm a good person. Right, right. But the the the the second someone crosses you wrong, the second someone hurts you, or you you crash your car in a minor accident, or just the the the second things don't quite go right. Well, that's it reveals what was there that you just had well hidden because of ideal circumstances.

Kevin 16:16

I I was just thinking about Colossians uh four, six, let your speech always be with grace, season with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one. I know that's more in the context of teaching about religious things, but I think it's a general principle that we need to be careful how we speak. And here's something that I try to do I try to take ownership for any miscommunication based on something that comes out of my mouth. So I might think in my mind that I didn't say it that way, but if the listener says, hey, this is the way I heard it, I give deference to them and I take ownership of that, right? Yeah, a lot of people are like, no, it's all about the hearing. They heard something that wasn't there, and they're biased and all this stuff. Maybe that's true, maybe it's not. But again, I think I have to take the responsibility to communicate more effectively to not trigger those negative reactions.

Nate 17:01

Well, and there's lots of practices we can do to ensure that we're communicating effectively with each other. Like acknowledging what the person says by repeating back to them. Right. This is what I'm hearing. Is that what you meant? Right. And then asking them little questions like that so that we know. So we're on the same page here before we before we move on to the next. I love that.

Jon 17:19

Yeah, that's a great tactic. One of my favorite quotes was from uh George W. And it was after the slain, I think, Dallas police officers, I think it was. And it was uh too often we judge a group of people by their worst offenders, right, right, and ourselves by our best intentions. Right. And I always think about that as this kind of what that came out of George W.

Nate 17:41

Bush's mouth.

Jon 17:42

Yeah, it was at a speech right after.

Kyle 17:44

Wow, that's a good snake to recite it.

Nate 17:47

Yeah, can you actually say it? There's gotta be WMDs in Iran right now. Right now, yeah. Right now, that's right. He's pretty good at it. Yeah, thanks, Kevin. I appreciate that. Come over. Laurel make you a cake.

Life And Death In Speech

Jon 17:58

So yeah, since I didn't bird hunting with Dick Cheney. Since I since I didn't do the accent, you probably didn't think it came from him. But it did, and I always love that because I I use that as kind of a tool to always say this to make sense is is we we judge one, we see polarization out there, but just the way that we we always it's pretty arrogant to sit there and and think that everyone should only judge you based upon what you've intended and not what you said or what you did. That's right. And and that's you know, that's that's pretty arrogant. And so I I think these these things obviously show you know an inside, like an x-ray, a mirror from the inside. And and they show that there's lots of power in the tongue. Oh, actually. Where do we go to find out what power of the tongue is? Uh yeah, there in in Proverbs, like it's everywhere. Uh Proverbs 18, 21, uh, death and life are in the power of the tongue. I mean, that's pretty polarization there. It's like pretty heavy.

Nate 18:54

Yeah.

Jon 18:54

Words can destroy or they can encourage. And I think that we need to see them as you mentioned in your analogy about respect to that shark in the water. Yes. I think that we need to have a healthy respect for the idea of what words can do. Right. And we don't, we throw them around like they're anything. Absolutely. And uh, I think it's just really important to to first identify the power of the tongue, and we'll talk about that a little bit more about what we what we do with it. But I think it's really important if you don't think these words are meaningful, if you don't think that they have a lot of power, you need to check yourself.

Kyle 19:25

Well, many years ago, I was having some conversations and studies about the Holy Spirit, and that's I don't I don't claim to have it all figured out. Uh, but the the the conversation is sort of going in the direction of well, Kyle, you just seem to think your boxing in the Holy Spirit is is only giving us the Bible. The Holy Spirit only works through the revealed word. And I said, Well, I don't know. It feels like you're trying to put down just how significant that is. And as I thought about how powerful words are, you see what men like Hitler were able to do through persuasive speeches. And then I think in my own life, um, I've shared here before about my uncle, Mike, uh, who passed away when I was about eight, and I had all these questions. And when I was in high school, I found a cassette tape with his name on it, and he just laid out his whole life story about how he rebelled against God, knew better, but chose anyway, uh, moved to San Francisco and pursued a homosexual lifestyle, got AIDS, and said, I'm gonna die within a year because I made these choices, and choices have consequences. And that was the whole message. And I heard that years after he passed away, and it and it's those simple words that literally echoed in my mind the first time my high school friends had alcohol and I was presented with that choice. It was the power of life was in the power of my uncle's words that were stuck in the back of my brain. Kyle, think about the consequences of your choices. So, words, I I saw the power of words, so I I'll never put down I I won't pigeonhole and say that's all the Holy Spirit ever did. But to me, that is that is the significant thing that the Holy Spirit did, and there's nothing we should be ashamed in saying that the Spirit delivered the words of God to mankind, because those are words that literally save us.

Nate 21:18

And and how is a Christian's life shaped? By by words, right? If God did not communicate to us in words his intention for us and for our lives, we would not know.

Kevin 21:30

That's right.

Nate 21:30

And and so, yeah, uh Kyle, absolutely, man, the Holy Spirit gave us the scriptures, and it is uh it's very powerful. It's very powerful. Um, it reminds me of Hebrews 4 12, for the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two edged sword, piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. God's words, the words given to us by the Holy Spirit, are able to cut us as deep as any words can cut us and show us who am I really.

Kyle 21:57

We'll do an episode about the Holy Spirit later this season. Okay.

Kevin 22:00

Well, think about this though. God designed us to respond to words. And that that's a big concept to me is that we're it designed in terms of our makeup, our intellectual hardware. We respond well to words. And he talks about the the the two-sided nature of the tongue, if you will, in Ephesians chapter four and and verse twenty-nine, where he says, Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth. Okay, there's the negative. Don't do that. But what is good for necessary edification, there's the positive, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And that's the thing. You can have corrupt communication that debases and demoralizes and destroys destroys, but you can also have positive communication that builds up and edifies and encourages. And think about you can say a couple of words that changes a person's orientation for that day. Maybe they had a bad day and they're just everybody's on them, and you said something positive, and just those words. And we maybe it's not even the spoken word, sometimes the written word. Have you guys ever received a card at the end of the day from some brethren or sisters and they're thinking about you? And this reading the words, it lifts your spirit. And it's just amazing to me how responsive we have been designed to be to words. And that's not something, as you said, we should be ashamed of.

Jon 23:15

No, and and that's happened to me with lots of people where I've received a mid. I mean, honestly, the best time is a midweek text. Yes. Just thinking about you. Yes. There's no reason for that to happen other than a genuine care and concern of that person. Right. And um and I I I'd say it lifts you up so much. And and and honestly, I would say that I have paid that in turn to other people because of it. So it's not always the written word, it's text, it's it's digital, it could be other things. Um we have a couple members here who like to send out birthday cards for you know every single person in the directory. And um it's just it's what you can do with those positive words. And I I'd like to, Nate, you're gonna have something. I'm gonna split splice you in here. Did you just have something? I felt I felt it coming from you. Oh no?

Nate 24:04

Well, I had about 17 things in Kevin's last name. I was like, oh my god. I have an idea. I have an idea brewing up here, but I was like, I haven't thought it through. I don't know if I should say it out loud. No, no, I like that.

Jon 24:16

Okay, so and that's what I would say is that these are good good examples of words that give life.

Five Biblical Filters Before Speaking

Kevin 24:21

Right.

Jon 24:22

Uh what I'd like to talk about now is I I wrote down here for us to look at the five questions to to think about before speaking that come from scripture, right? Um, and maybe these can help us. There's probably lots of other ones, but maybe these ones um can help us filter communication. And and the first we'll look at is the question of is it true? Right. And we see from uh Ephesians 4, we get back into Ephesians 4, you were just there, but we're gonna return to verse 24 29. But in verse 25, it says, Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. God calls his people to honesty and integrity in their speech. Right. And the truth builds up, um builds trust in relationships, while dishonesty erodes them. What do you think about that? Is is it true? Is that something that uh do you filter things through? Do you do you think of that before you say something? Maybe it could be gossip, it could be other things that you're you're spouting up, but also um is it uh is it valuable for those uh building the trust in relationships? What do you think about that?

Kevin 25:28

I think it's a it's a great point. One of the things I think about is is it true and do I know it's true, and how do I know it's true? And again, I'm fortunate this is probably the lawyer and me coming out, but I hate to put bad information out there. And so I want to make sure the things that I say are verifiable. And so my thinking is if I can't verify, if I don't know it's true, what business do I have sharing it? And sometimes we're kind of loose about that. We hear something, we pass it along. We don't know if it's true, we haven't verified it. And especially if it turns out to be derogatory or harmful to somebody else, that's the last thing you want to do. You want to make sure the things that you say, as you said, are true because you get a reputation for being a truth teller or not. So I think that's a great question is okay, is this thing true? I would just add to it, how do I know it's true? Because some people think it's true because it resonates with me, it's true because it makes sense. No, is it true in the sense that could you prove it if you had to?

Jon 26:21

Sure, yeah, yeah.

Kyle 26:22

Oh, Proverbs 18, verse two says, A fool has no delight in understanding but in expressing his own heart.

Kevin 26:29

Yes.

Kyle 26:30

And just when I think I found the best verse that encapsulates social media, I find a new one. It's like that's even better. But just pause before you click share and just do the bare minimum of research.

Kevin 26:42

Right. Fact checking.

Kyle 26:43

But a lot of people just want to say that I'm right and I want to express my opinion, and that that just it entered my brain, so I'll say it.

Jon 26:52

Right.

Nate 26:52

Yeah.

Jon 26:53

And I always see this as these can be indicative of rumor mills, it can be indicative of gossip, but I also see it as into um I I love the study of the brain and the way we think and the way we communicate. And the one thing um when I do like surveys with people and I do like um user experience surveys for companies and stuff, what I what I notice is what I tail teach people is the power of observation, what you can observe and what you can't observe. Right and you can't observe intent. Yeah, yeah. And so you can't, it's not something you can observe. Right. Now it's something you may be able to judge based upon the content of their speech, but you can't understand, you can't assume you know intent. And that's one of the problems is when someone does something, you'd be like, Well, they meant to be, or they were mean to me, or they were and I'd always kind of challenge people on that is you don't know that. You don't know what their motivation in this one. You see them, you hear those, you may hear have heard a word out of context, right? But we can't just assume we know anything. And so what do you do with that one? Well, you practice good communication, you make sure it's true, and you go to them and you talk to them about it, right? You use communication, but I always think about that that intent and perception. We we assume, oh, I'm sure that they did this or they felt this way, or or I know why the elders did that. It's because they right like or I know that like I hear it all the time, and like you don't really know.

Kevin 28:16

John, it just resonated with me. I can't tell you how many times I've heard somebody say something in the workplace in particular. I think I'm a little bit better with our brethren, and I build an entire complex, nuanced narrative of what they were thinking about and this complicated scheme, and almost always it is proven wrong later. And then I feel silly for assuming all these things that I couldn't possibly know because I don't know the intent of their hearts. I can't read their minds.

Jon 28:40

And do you feel horrible? Like I've I've done that before we everything we're saying here is we've all done. Yeah. But I have felt like such a go.

Nate 28:48

Like, I don't know, I like I just I yeah, and then you find out the real reason why someone did A instead of B. It has nothing to do with your story that makes paints them in a terrible light.

Jon 28:59

It's really hard to what you do. Just did a podcast the previous week about how not to do that, and then you're like oh, what a jerk. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, the next one is is it loving? And Ephesians 4 15 says, rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way unto him. Who is the head into Christ? But so this is scripture encourages in believers to speak uh the truth in love, which words may be accurate. And we talked about this, I think, over dinner earlier. Words may be accurate, uh, they may still be um and still be unnecessarily harsh. Right. So love shapes uh not only what we say, how we but how we say it. Yeah, yeah.

Nate 29:40

And and sometimes just because something is true does not mean we have to say it.

Kevin 29:46

Oh, absolutely, brother.

Nate 29:47

Sometimes it's better to be.

Jon 29:50

The next one is a necessary. Read your notes, man. Yeah, but yeah. I gave you a guide for reason. No, no, that's that that's true. That's true. And and but they they they kind of they kind of go together. They do. How we say something and whether we should say it at all. No, we know that our speech should be loving. Right. Why do you think why do you think that's not the first thing we do? Like, why do you think that's not the first filter that we run speech through?

Nate 30:16

So sometimes speaking the truth in love is difficult and it requires thought. Right. Because if we have a difficult thing to say to somebody like, Nate, you say too many ums and uhs, you sound like a goofball, and I have to edit for 73 minutes just you. True story. Yes, true story. Yeah. If you said it like that, I'd probably be like, oh, John, well, you're mean. Um but if you but if you say it kindly, I appreciate how you have a lot to say on these subjects. And then, you know, gently get into maybe think a little longer before you uh with my own lawyer speech up.

Jon 30:53

Would it be uh would it be agreeable that we could see that's Mr. Collins?

Nate 31:00

But you gotta but you gotta think before you say it's effort.

Jon 31:04

And and honestly, there why why do we yell across the house to for someone to bring us something because we don't want to get off the couch? Right. We we have a problem with effort sometimes in and we get well, I mean, let's give ourselves a little grace. You know, at the end of the day, coming home from work as men, it it's it's a little hard. You get exhausted. Sometimes it's just the well, and and how about this one? As we talk about words, how often is our speech um not corrected just because of physical exhaustion and alone? And and just letting the body, I mean, I think it's part of your your sermon there, is is basically uh leaning in on letting the body have control over us. I mean letting the carnal side of us in control. And so I think that can happen with speech too, yeah, is it it just takes effort and it's just yeah, it's piggyback on that because that one of the things I've seen, I make this distinction.

Kevin 31:53

There's a distinction between expression and communication. Expression is just getting stuff off your chest. You're mad, you're angry, and you just want to let and you're not thinking, right? You're just getting it out there. But communication, you have to think, all right, okay, who is this person I'm speaking to? What are their biases? What are their hot button issues? What sets them off? What's a good way to present? How do they view me? I mean, you're going through a lot of decision making and trying to figure out what's the best way to thread this message so it makes its way to that person and is well received. Well, as you said, that takes so much work in order to figure out, okay, what words do I use and not use, and that person's gonna think about this and they have a bias that way. And it's just easier just to get it off my chest. And so I think that's the one reason why it's like you said, it's it's less effort to just say what comes to mind as opposed to thinking about what's the most effective way to bring this message home. Right.

Jon 32:48

But but if we track this one back down to one of our original theses, okay, and that was uh the heart, yeah. Maybe the reason why it's hard is because we don't have enough love in our heart.

Kevin 33:01

That's a great point. That's a great point.

Jon 33:02

Maybe we maybe it's indicative of showing us that's a good point. Maybe the attitude I need to have towards my brother isn't there. Yeah. And that should be there because I don't value that relationship like I should. And I don't think about them in a loving, concerned way. That's a good point. Because there are some people that you have a lot of value for and a lot of care for. Right. And you're very careful about that. But what you say, yeah. Careful about that. Yeah. Um, and so I I know I think about that is is the of the origin. Um, but Nate, you mentioned isn't necessary. And Proverbs 10, 19 says, when words are many, transgression is not lacking. Yes. But whoever restrains his lips is prudent. So Proverbs observes that when words are many, transgressions are not lacking. Sometimes wisdom means slowing down, listening carefully, and choosing your words thoughtfully rather than reacting quickly, and literally, one of my worst offenses. I could have preaching to myself in this one, guys, because I talk a lot and I talk, I love, I love being in the sanctity, like we talked about, of like certain conversations with you guys because we really can say whatever we want to say, and there's not a lot of judgment outside the room, and we walk away, but yeah, I just I just talk too much.

Kyle 34:18

I've been waiting, I've been waiting for an opportunity to chime in here, but you keep talking. Exactly. This is just one of many applications of my idea. My dad's mantra I heard growing up that less is more.

Jon 34:33

Yeah, my dad used to say keep you know, kiss and everything too. Simple, stupid. Um, but simple, silly, we don't say stupid. Okay, sure. Well, I did hear it in a sermon recently.

Nate 34:44

I know.

Kyle 34:45

Oh, that hurts. Well, here's something that came to my mind towards the beginning of the podcast, and I thought this was probably a good point in the discussion to bring it up. Is we talk about how words can damage the person we're speaking to, but it works both ways. How often, when I think about isn't necessary, how often do you walk away from a frustrating situation and then carry on the conversation when you're out of earshot from that person and say horrible mean things? You know, you idiot. All the things that you wanted to say, but you didn't. So you feel like I get credit for for using discretion, but then I'll just say it here and get it off my chest. And well, okay, does that change your attitude towards that person? And God is still listening. And so that's a habit where I feel like I'm pretty good at keeping my mouth shut when I'm angry. Right, right. But I walk away and I finish the conversation.

Jon 35:42

I leave it all on the table. Let's say it's not great, but but yeah, I think it is definitely a problem, is is just being being uh aware, socially aware, self-aware enough of tactfully when when and when not to say things.

Kevin 35:59

You know, let me throw something at you and uh I'll I'll use that phrase you guys have uh uh really gotten in my head. No offense, John. But uh Proverbs 29, 11, a fool vents all his feelings, but a wise man holds them back. Well, there you go. There are things that come across our minds that the Lord is saying you don't have to reveal them, and you probably shouldn't. All right. The wise guy is making some calculated decisions. Do I really need to say this or not? Is this gonna be helpful or not? Is this gonna build this person up or not? And I remember my brother doing this to me one time. I was telling him a story about somebody, and uh I uh I guess it would be perceived as gossip. And so I'm getting into my story, and my brother just says, Do I need to hear this? It's my little brother. And first I wanted to say, How dare you? I'm the big brother. But then again, I thought about it, I was like, you know, he's right. Yeah, he doesn't need to hear this.

Nate 36:50

Yeah.

Kevin 36:50

And so I cut it off. And so I tell people on the gossip thing, we can help each other. You know, if you're on the receiving end, do I need going to your question, do I need to hear this? But if we're on the giving end, we also need to be thinking, do I need to tell this? There's some things don't need to be told. It's nature for a little brother to usurp his big brother.

Kyle 37:05

It's just it's the order, the natural order of things.

Jon 37:09

Well, and think about this. So building on that, have you ever had like a conversation with your wife in front of your kids where you realize we need to not be talking about this right now, in front of kids, right? So it's it's also the socially, maybe um uh environmentally aware of where and when you talk about things and how you're gonna talk about things. But leading into the fourth point there, is it the right time? And I think that that taking that analogy and thinking about how Proverbs 15, 23 says to make an apt answer is a joy to a man, and a word in season, how good it is. Yeah, love that. The Bible reminds us that timing matters. Yeah, the word spoken in due season, how good it is. Even good words can cause damage when they're spoken impulsively.

Kyle 37:58

Yeah, when somebody just lost a relative, don't go up and say, Yeah, I remember how I felt when my aunt died. Right. They don't want to hear that or your dog.

Jon 38:07

Some people say the wrong things at the wrong time, too.

Kyle 38:10

You're well-intentioned, but it happens, you know, the one thing Job's friends got right. Just sit down, shut up, and sit there and cry with your friend.

Kevin 38:17

Yes, yes. I love that.

Jon 38:19

Yeah, and so as I think about those conversations, maybe that you're having in public, and you're not. I think that there's there's wisdom in needing to have those conversations and having them with someone that you can, but finding the right place and the right time to have them uh is appropriate. And I don't think that's even it's biblical, but I don't even think that should be biblical. It should be so much logical to the point of um you know people airing laundry and having these conversations now, too. I think it's just smart.

Kyle 38:48

Well, and you don't you don't want to embarrass some like if you can you you don't you can avoid embarrassing somebody. That's right. Like like your kids. Yes, they might need a lecture, they might need some correction, but doing it in front of their friends. Right. There you go. Maybe that's appropriate at times, but generally I would say probably not you don't need to.

Jon 39:05

Well, and I've noticed I've seen people maybe do a sermon or something like this, and someone kind of air their their displeasure in front of everyone in the foyer about something like that. And I I think there's the right time. Yeah, um, and I think that if you have questions about that, that's one thing. But dressing someone down, yeah, um especially especially like a brand new brother or someone who's just starting up. I remember going up to do like a Lord's now, it was kind of like uh an invitation, uh-huh, and I used uh an infamous word um chance instead of instead of hope for heaven. I was like 15, okay? But I used chance for heaven instead of hope, and an elder just dressed you down. Yeah, and I was like, it it I have it, and that's the reason I haven't done one yet. No. Um but no, that but I that that's not the scenario. I think is is that correction needs to be made.

Kevin 39:58

Yeah.

Jon 39:58

Find the right time.

Kevin 39:59

You know what I think about when I think about that? I can't help but think about Aquila and Priscilla with Apollo's. They took him aside and explained to him the way of the Lord more perfectly. And you know, Aquila might have been able to blast him publicly.

Kyle 40:12

We would label him a false teacher and write him up in the paper. Right, right.

Kevin 40:15

Great point. But I mean, isn't that just so wonderful that they took him aside? They didn't want to embarrass him, they wanted the brother to feel bad. They didn't want to take down his reputation. And then he received it well, right? Because it was done well. It was done privately, offline. And next thing you know, they've turned this thing around and he's doing so much good for the Lord's work. And I've tried to use that just in general when you're trying to rebuke people, unless it's a Galatians 2, and we got to make the statement, pull people aside. And really, it's a Matthew 7, 12 thing. It's how would you want to be addressed if you did something wrong? Like your talk.

Jon 40:48

I'd rather somebody pull me aside and tell them. Yeah, and that's dictated by the outcome you're looking for. Exactly. Right? If you're wanting, and uh, you know, we we what's the verse, uh, a soft word turns around. Proverbs 15. Yeah, and so it it's the whole point is is what's your outcome of this conversation? Is it to mm be right?

Kevin 41:07

Yeah, right.

Jon 41:08

Or is it to help someone and and and and help build them up? Absolutely. All right, so we talked about first, is it true? Is it loving? Is it necessary? Is it the right time? Lastly, will it build someone up? Right. Like I said, I don't think these are all like all the ver the questions you can ask, but I think um truth, loving, necessary, right time, does it build someone up? Ephesians uh 4, 29, we just read. No, no, no, no. We do that all the time right now. Yeah. Um let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but as but only such as is good for building up and fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. Right. This instructs believers to uh speak in ways that strengthen others and give grace to those who hear. And um, I think that this is the medicine. A lot of times we have rules and a lot of times we have reactive um ways to address sin or address things in life. And too often we do not work on preventative medicine. Preventative medicine in my mind is just it's all the good stuff that you should be doing that help prevent all the bad stuff.

Kyle 42:18

All the all the stuff Nate does every morning.

Jon 42:20

Yeah, the cold plunge um does.

Nate 42:22

I keep telling you guys. It's the coldest of cold plunges. And you keep getting older. I don't know what it is.

Jon 42:27

Yeah. But that that's that's the thing, is is um building people up it covers so many things. Um, you were talking about before identifying all the positive things that your kids can have in the class, all that is preventative medicine. You're doing that stuff, and it's gonna have dividends. I mean, I'm using more economic words. Dividends in the future, thank you. Uh in the future. And so I I think it's just so much important is putting all that time and effort into your kids and into um the intentionality with brothers. Seek ways, and we we we talked about with two uh one of our motto is to you know, stir up love and good works. I'm sure you had that in your lesson too. That's right. Stir up love and good works. And I just think if we did that as our main focus, um, we wouldn't have so many problems with our words in general. And it would also keep us in the forefront. That's the relationship I have with that person. I have a loving, kind relationship with that person. He gives me good words, I give him good words back. Why would I ever say anything to damage that? I'm gonna treat that relationship now as a protected, holy relationship. I mean, that's a loving relationship. I don't want to mess that up. And if we had that with everyone who came in contact, I mean, maybe a stretch, but we would see a lot less problems.

Humor And Intentional Encouragement

Kevin 43:39

I agree. Let me throw something in there, and I don't know if it necessarily fits nicely under one of these, but one of the things that I've found that's very effective and kind of lubricating my communication is humor. Uh in our family, we laugh a lot and we love to make fun of each other in a loving way. But it just opens the door to say all kinds of things. And sometimes I find that if you can if you have a legitimate criticism and package it in some pretty good humor, it goes down a little bit easier on the other side. But I'm just thinking in general, the more you laugh with people, the more of a relationship you have. And I think the more leeway and freedom people give you in what you communicate.

Nate 44:16

Oh, yeah, totally. This that's such a um powerful tool. I use it in my classroom, or I try to anyways, at de-escalating situations with students. And uh yeah, using humor to say difficult things or to handle difficult situations. It's got to be well done. Yes, right, it can be overdone, it can uh and sometimes it doesn't land right. That's right. Um, but that's it, that's a powerful, powerful tool.

Jon 44:43

Which of these questions do you think we have the most problem with? We struggle, maybe using what filter here do we think we struggle either personally or people in general as a whole?

Nate 44:56

For me, it's is it necessary? Yeah, that that was mine. Personally, that was mine. Yeah, marriage has taught me that 97% of what I have to say is not necessary. That's right. You know, and one of the one of the deacons, this was a while back, we were having a conversation, I forget what it was about, but he said, uh think about whatever response you want to give to whatever situation he goes, is that thing gonna matter in five years?

Kevin 45:25

Yeah.

Nate 45:25

If it's gonna matter in five years, say whatever you were gonna say. Right. If it's not, shut up. Yes, just keep it in, right? And I thought about that. And number one, it helped me be less uh um angry, upset. Right. Uh, and secondly, it preserved my my relationships, my my marriage. Right. Um it it helped me not to make stupid choices.

Kevin 45:48

Yes, yes.

Jon 45:50

I I think though it as a whole, I think we don't do enough of number five there, the the building people up. I just don't think it's an active part of of everyday things. And I think in general that one would cover multiple multitude of sins. So I think I think I think we just generally have a hard time with that. And I don't know if it's just um I don't think we have a hard time with that when it's done to us.

Kyle 46:16

I just think that we it's maybe I think too selfishly when when it comes to speech, is I I always think about if I tell a joke and it lands, then I feel like I've climbed socially, you know, I get I get some social points. Or if I say a joke that maybe like, okay, I didn't think that one through, it fell flat, or it kind of like rub someone the wrong way, and then I get really quiet and feel stupid. And so I'm just thinking in terms of how is what I'm saying? Does it make me sound smart? Does it elevate me in people's minds? I I tend to think too much in those terms, not about like, well, what do they need to hear? What's right, right, what's what's the truth they need to hear, what's the encouragement they need to hear, what's gonna put them in a better. I just think too much about where does this put me in the eyes of everybody else?

Jon 46:57

That is an interesting filter though. There are times where it's like, I will wanna I wanna say this, I want to say it that way, and I think that would have a really amazing impact and really hit right, and then you just go like but that's probably gonna rub people the wrong way or they're or or can I bank that they're going to assume a positive intent with that too. So that that that whole assumption thing of not being able to under not being able to dictate and understand people's intentions, that works the other way too. And knowing that people have that people cannot assume intent, right? Intent, right, we probably should do it for them. We probably should make things very very um surface level very understandable for them.

Kevin 47:39

Let me say one thing, going back to your building up. I think what we have to do is be much more intentional and opportunistic when it comes to finding ways to build others up. We're in a service and just watch people. Somebody leads the singing really well, somebody reads scripture really well, uh, someone teaches your daughter very well in their Bible class, or you just see somebody reach out to a visitor and engage them in good conversation. Just be on the lookout for opportunities to praise and then follow up and say, hey, brother, I and and you may want to write it down and so you remember it. I have things that, you know, right now I've got a brother back at Oat Mount and did a fantastic job in the Lord's Supper uh talk, and I didn't get a chance to say anything to him, and I went out of town, and Wednesday night I'm gonna make a beeline for him and tell him about that.

Jon 48:24

Well, yeah, you mentioned something like that in your sermon. That's right. And I I I kind of do that too at the end of services. I'll scan around. My wife doesn't like this because we stay, we stay a lot longer. But I'll kind of scan through and go, like, who do I need to talk to now? Right.

Kyle 48:38

But um, I think that's Yeah, I don't talk to John for the first 15 minutes or or Nate or anybody that it's like we're all gonna end up on the backyard watching the kids playing, and we'll I'll I'll talk to you eventually. Right. I'm headhunting for visitors, or I like to find people that did first. You know, we had a first invitation a couple Sundays ago. Uh John, you know, your son James has been leading some of his first songs. I always I always make sure I tell those young folks uh now now think about this too is here's a self-check.

Jon 49:06

Scan the auditorium, look around, and try to identify someone that you have something you need to say or want to say something positive to them and encouraging to them. And based upon a react uh an something that you have in common, something you know about, something that's going on in their life, something uh that uh some interaction, something that they've done. If you if you have a hard time and you're blanking on those things, you may be you may need to be to step up the engagement. Yes. You may need to just get more engaged with people and learn about who they are and understand who they are. If you're coming up with blanks and not really knowing what to do with those things, yes, one, if it is to be, it's up to me. You gotta get up there and do it yourself. They're not gonna always come and find you. And I just think it's important to that like if you're coming up with blanks, I I think that says more about you. Um and I I take that because I I might I might come up with blanks with someone. I realize I that sister over there, I don't I know her name, yes, but maybe that's all I know. And maybe I need to set my my game on.

Learning Engagement From A Prayer

Kevin 50:09

Let me just it it's a little different direction than where you're going, but it's building on the same principle. Years ago, I was at Oak Mountain and there was a brother there, and I'm gonna name his name, Bill Sparks. He's still there. And this brother was up in years, and he would always lead these public prayers when he would literally go down through every single person who's out for surgery, who's out for sickness, uh, who's going overseas. I mean, he just nailed it. And whenever I lead a public prayer, I noticed I was scrambling. I knew the day of. I'm scrambling to get the bulletin. I'm trying to memorize really quick five minutes before I do the prayer. And I always miss about half of it and I feel terrible. So I went to this brother and I said, Hey, brother, I noticed that when you pray, you just are exhaustive and comprehensive and thorough. How do you do that? And he looks at me and says, Because I pray for these people every single day in my life. And I was like, smack, smack, smack. Ah, there, engagement. I don't know people like he knows. He is memorized. I mean, this is just an extension of his private prayer life, which is an extension of his concern for his brothers and sisters in Christ. And hear me, I'm waiting to the last minute to try to memorize something. I'm not as engaged. And that was uh critique of myself.

Jon 51:19

I'm gonna can I get out of the soapbox here real quick.

Kevin 51:21

Go ahead, go ahead. All right.

Jon 51:24

Nice soapbox. I'll put it, I'll put it away in a second. But if if you if you hear that lesson, that sorry, not lesson, if you hear that prayer and they're going through all those names, yeah, if the first thing that you're thinking of is man, this is gonna be a long prayer, or man, that was a long prayer, it's a pet peeve. It's like if someone is taking that the the the time that we have dedicated and set aside specifically for this, right, and they're mentioning all the people who need prayers by name. Right.

Kevin 51:56

That's impressive.

Jon 51:57

Don't you dare like dress them down. That's the words what to say and when not to say it. Yeah, don't say it then. Yeah, that's it. Um yeah, sure. We can think that the songs can go long and the prayers can be lengthy, and some people have more flowery language than that, but right, I mean, when it comes from the heart, uh all you're doing is you're you're you're dressing and bringing those things down. So I don't put the same box. That's a great bad brother. Um okay, but I just I I was thinking about that must have been a long prayer, and I'm like, I know what it, I know, I know some people probably have something to say about that.

Kevin 52:30

They do, they make little snide comments here, stuff like that.

Closing Challenge And Next Steps

Jon 52:33

Yeah, and it's and honestly, the intent though, between of that person to sit there, they just felt like they did something that was very valuable to them, they did, and to others, yeah. And you just gave them kind of a snide comment about how you did not value it. Right. Like that's yeah, that's harsh. All right, well, let's let's kind of move on here. I was as we reflect and we look at all these things, we realize that and understand that communication is not merely a social skill, it is a spiritual matter. That's right. Okay, so in scripture teaches two really important things as we get into a conclusion here. One, words begin in the heart, our speech reflects what is inside of us. And words should honor God. We didn't get really too much into this one, but we're gonna do that in a Bible study. We're gonna look at Colossians 3 17. Someone quote that for me.

Nate 53:22

Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord. Impressive.

Jon 53:26

Thank you. Um, that's what we should be doing. So the goal of our speech is to honor God in everything we say. If you look back there, I think you mentioned something in your sermon about the validation of Jesus, right? If Jesus, what what if you told Jesus you did that, you know, or watch that, or you sit there with him and watch it? Right. Like validation through his understanding in him. Right. Um, also with your speech, would you say that in front of God? Right. Would you say that in front of the Lord Almighty of everything? So I I think that that we we see that though, we study words, we study language, we come up with they begin the heart, and if you have a problem with your words, you gotta you gotta fix it in the heart. And um, we should be honoring God in everything that we do. So understand when your study, your belief, your faith in Christ can shape your words. Uh, our speech at that point can encourage others, strengthen families, promote unity, reflect God's character. Um, when Christ shapes your heart, our words become a force for good. So, closing, I would say, um, what do my words think about think about this for yourself, please, as you kind of listen to this podcast and you might move on with your day. What do my words reveal about my heart? Think about that as just like the foundation, you know, the first step here. And I think you'll get some good self-reflection and um just be more cautious about the things that you say.

Kyle 54:43

Be honest about the cockroaches.

Jon 54:46

There you go.

Kyle 54:46

I love that. You want to Yeah, well, John, thank you. Those are words for sure that that those I said words. Yeah, we all said some words that hopefully give our audience something about. Glorify God. If these words have been words of life, hopefully not words of death, um, please let us know and give us some feedback. We appreciate you guys listening and uh tuning in. We love the feedback from you guys. Many of our episodes have come from uh listener comments, and uh so thank you for tuning in, and uh, we'll be back in a week, give or take.

Nate 55:18

Three three words I'd like to highlight. Yeah. Like, subscribe, and share.

Kyle 55:23

Those are words too. Thank you. Those are words. Well, Nate, I told your father-in-law a lame dad joke, which that's that's his currency, right? Yeah, yeah. He and Steve Bird just stared at me like I was an idiot. I was like, I've laughed at your joke, so I went and I went to my office and cried for three minutes.

Jon 55:42

Okay, so my father-in-law they're doing that, they're doing that knowing it's gonna affect you, not because it wasn't funny.

Nate 55:48

It worked. It worked, they didn't. My father-in-law, that is, that is how he speaks, is in like dad jokes. Yeah. Rest assured. I laughed at his jokes about funny. You'll have to tell me what the what the joke is afterwards because I guarantee you he's either already told it to me or he's going to tell it to me. He may not have laughed when you said it, but he is going to.

Jon 56:06

The problem is he talks about it like it's a parable or like it's some sort of story that's gonna give you like some sort of wisdom and intent, and then it comes around as a dad joke. So he's like, let me tell you. Uh new Frank. And Frank was, you know, like it's really funny the way he does it.

Nate 56:19

He makes you, yeah, he makes you think he's wise.

Kyle 56:22

So it is it is a fact, um, undeniable that the Seahawks beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl. But it would be unloving to remind John of that frequently. Yeah. So I have restrained, even though it is factually true, I have restrained because that's the the loving response here. Yeah, that's why.

Kevin 56:42

Throw in shade, throw in shade.

Jon 56:44

Yeah, so uh next week, Cork Justin and I think we actually did one like that. Go back and listen to episode 43. Um