70 - Is Mocking “Holy” Symbols Blasphemy?

When someone mocks Christianity—but not your specific beliefs—should you be offended? In this listener-submitted episode, we explore the 2024 Olympic opening ceremony’s depiction of The Last Supper, the line between irreverence and blasphemy, and examples from music, movies, and everyday speech. We also discuss when and why Christians should take offense, how to respond with grace and wisdom, and how to ensure our own words honor God.

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Transcript

Introduction to Blasphemy

Speaker 1 0:06

Welcome to the Exhorter podcast, where it is our aim to stir up love and good works through bite-sized biblical conversations. Today, I understand that we're going to talk about something blasphemous. Is that right, John?

Speaker 2 0:17

Maybe it might be blasphemous. We'll have to get to it. We'll have to see, perhaps. Perhaps Is this a blasphemous episode or is this an episode on blasphemy?

Speaker 2 0:29

stay tuned I think, if we're being honest, every episode is just a little bit blasphemous come on stop, okay, but we actually talked about uh, we kind of talked about blasphemy a little bit, a lot in some blasphemy podcasts here, but this was actually another listener request and I'll kind of get to that and how it's that way, because we're not going to start necessarily with Blossomy, but I'm going to kind of take it back to six months ago. About six months ago, the sacred imagery of the Last Supper, not in a dimly lit upper room but recast in the glitz and glamour of the 2024 Summer Olympics. The disciples transformed into world-class athletes, the bread and wine swapped out for energy drinks and protein bars. And Jesus, let's say. His portrayal sparks debate like no podium speech ever could. This bold reinterpretation went viral, hailed by some as a creative homage to unity and athleticism, but to others it's not just bad taste, it's blasphemy.

Speaker 2 1:38

Okay, so when you ask ChatGPT to describe the most controversial event from last summer, chat GPT to describe the most controversial event from last summer? It leaves out the fact that these were. It doesn't talk about the drag queens and the strong sense of mockery from it and most of the time it does kind of have this like apologetic sense of it's not in its intention, wasn't to be controversial, but if you don't remember this, last year, at the beginning of the opening ceremonies for the 2024 Olympics, they had this kind of a skit opener imagery where they portrayed the Last Supper, a painting by Leonardo da Vinci, but instead replaced and recast everyone with some very provocative imagery. Now the Paris Olympic organizers apologized to those offended but stated it was never an intention to show disrespect to any religious group. Thomas Jolly, the artistic director, said the scene was not meant to be subversive or shock people or mock people at all. He claimed the segment was intended to be a pagan celebration connected to the gods of Olympus and not inspired by the Last Supper.

Speaker 1 2:50

Oh, that's much better pagan.

Speaker 2 2:52

So they were mocking pagans, except for it was in the exact same frame and depiction of the Last Supper.

Speaker 3 2:58

So you can believe everything everybody says.

Speaker 2 3:01

Exactly, exactly. So the question, though, that really came up is how should we, as Christians and not Catholics, look at these types of situations, because, at the end of the day, should we be offended by this, even though the painting doesn't have a strong spiritual significance to us? How should we feel about other symbols like this? And there's a lot of different imagery out there that Catholicism uses, such as the rosary, the crucifix, the sacred heart, virgin Mary, holy water, candles, saints and symbols, the fish. They'll use lots of symbols and stuff, and so, at some point in time, I feel like a lot of evangelicals get really possessive about anyone trying to mock anything related to Christianity under the guise of Christianity, the big tent of the Christian faith, and so the real question was should we be offended by this?

Speaker 2 3:56

as Christian, Should have that offended me because it was mocking something that was supposed to be religious, even though we don't look and we don't venerate it. We don't look at it as something that was supposed to be religious, even though we don't venerate it. We don't look at it as something that's important to our belief structure in our system.

Speaker 1 4:11

But this is a really good question, though, to ponder, and I've seen this in other aspects too, because the Olympics did get a lot of attention and it did make me think I was offended by it, but I did have to stop and think well why? Because that depiction of artwork is more Catholic than it is to me, and I don't relate to the Catholics as having the same faith as I do. But you see this in other areas too. There was a lot of uproar when the movie Conclave came out at the end of last year, and it's a fictitious movie about the process of selecting the new pope, who ends up being a transgender person, at least according to the synopsis I read, and a lot of people were offended by that, and I just found myself thinking well, transgender or not, I don't really care who the pope is.

Speaker 3 5:03

Yeah, it's irrelevant to you.

Speaker 2 5:04

Well, I think this actually came up years ago too, when, um, let's see 2006, the Da Vinci code. So there's been other times where these kinds of things have come out where, um, we have, or, uh, even when the passion of Christ had come out, but you have the things that were obviously like dogma and even Noah. These are movies that have come out in the last 20 years that some of them were a direct attack against Christianity and God and they're very blasphemous, and some are an attack through not being true to God's word and some are very much a revisionist history kind of thought of a mystery behind what the real intent of all these things was in the Catholic church in general, like kind of more of a mockery of the Catholic church, like the Da Vinci code and things. So it's, it's. The real kind of question is when is it? Is it blasphemous, and is that why we should in general be offended because of it?

Speaker 1 6:01

If it's blasphemous or not, I could take this back to my first experiences. Again, I'm looking not so much at the specific incidents here, more the general concept of taking offense for something directed at Christians, but directed at Christians that I don't think really have the same faith or that aren't really following the Bible. So my first example would be I invited some friends over to watch a movie and I was trying to be liked by them, so I let them pick the movie and one of the older kids and I grew up in Portland, so a lot of anti-religious mindsets there he brought the movie Dogma, written and directed by Kevin Smith. That probably tells you all you need to know about it. But have either of you guys ever seen that movie? I haven't, ben Affleck, it was back in the days.

Speaker 2 6:52

If I did, I wouldn't tell you. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1 6:55

Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. They were like newcomers and I'm certainly not recommending it. But the whole point of the movie is it's about two angels that are trying to get back into heaven, even though God said they can't get into heaven. But they find a loophole to get in and it's just it's. It's poking fun and making fun of, like all the Christian tropes in a very irreverent kind of way. And I'm just sitting here thinking as a, as a 16 year old, not really knowing how to defend it, not really knowing what I should say, but just seeing all this and thinking none of what they're saying is biblically correct. They're targeting Christians and the Christian faith, but not, at least as I understand, the Christian faith from the biblical sense. So I was offended by it and bothered by it. But I think I was more bothered just that people thought that's what Christianity was. That's part of what bothers me in these situations.

Speaker 2 7:51

Well, another example is there's a song that came out by a band called Hoosier a few years ago called Take Me to Church, sing us a few bars, john.

Speaker 2 7:59

Dude that song. It hits right, like it. Actually. It's got a real good sound to it and as a musician I'm like man it gets in your head and you're not, and then you find out, okay, it's very an over-sexualized view and mockery of the church and other things and so it's not a good song. But it's also making a lot of mockery and focus on the Catholic church and so should I be offended and not want to sing it because of that. And it gets into this thought of should I ever support anyone who's mocking anything, mocking a religion, let alone a religion depicting and after the same God that I believe?

Speaker 2 8:44

is real and his son, jesus Christ. And so should I ever be okay with anyone mocking something that is it takes after? I mean, is it different if it would be mocking Buddha, or is it different because it's mocking the God that I believe, even though the way and what I believe is true about them isn't the same as the people that they're doing it through? And I think this is one of those subjects where I can see from both sides.

The 2024 Olympics Last Supper Controversy

Speaker 2 9:14

If you're coming from Catholicism and I think that that's the way it was brought to me, someone coming from Catholicism a lot of times what you're going to do is, when you convert over, you kind of move away from that.

Speaker 2 9:24

You're really putting all of those practices, all of those beliefs, all of the signs and symbols and that structure that's not found in the Bible. You're really putting it far away from you and you're kind of disconnecting its value and the value to you and your faith and belief. You're having to sever a lot there. And so I understand at that point something that's mocking like the Last Supper, a painting about a situation from the Bible, wanting to not make it feel like it bothers you, like it shouldn't be offensive to me because that's a Catholic thing, that's not a Christian thing, and I understand that sense. But I also I also am a little convicted here about anything that's blasphemous, and that's why I thought we just talk about blasphemy a little bit kind of tie that into what it is why is it wrong and what does it look like in our modern society and how we can avoid it. Because I think that we'll be able to make this discernment of whether or not we should be offended by these other things.

Speaker 3 10:25

I mean where my mind goes is like, whether I'm offended or not, does it really matter? What matters more is what's your attitude towards God and you?

Speaker 2 10:35

know, be careful. We are to be defenders of faith and of God. Yeah.

Speaker 1 10:41

Blasphemy is a transliteration of a Greek word, blasphemia, and it's a compound word from hurt and speech, hate, speech, to speak evil of someone. To speak evil, yeah, or to slander someone, disrespect, irreverence towards god, his name or his actions, right?

Speaker 2 10:57

so, uh, we got. We got to define there. Um, in matthew 12, 31 through 32 talks about it also being a little special right. Where does it say blasphemy as kyle? What's that in Matthew 12, unforgivable sin? Why is it considered, you know, as an unforgivable sin blaspheming the Holy spirit?

Speaker 1 11:20

Oh well, that's because back in verses 23 and 24 of Matthew 12, the Pharisees. They looked at Jesus and heard about the miracle and said it is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons. This man casts out demons. And so they looked at God's spirit and equated it with Satan. Essentially, and if Jesus is the great physician, the healer, and if you look at the physician as Satan, well, are you ever going to allow him to?

Speaker 2 11:55

heal you. Yeah, if you do not respect his power and his position and who he is, you're never going to repent, you're never going to turn away from it. And so it is only unforgivable, because if you're in that state of blasphemy and that state of disbelief in his grace and his power, you'll never be saved by it, because you'll never look at it. Because belief matters.

Speaker 1 12:22

If you look at the Son of God and you equate him with Satan. Are you going to go to him to be saved? Yeah, Are you going to go to him to be saved?

Speaker 2 12:29

Yeah.

Speaker 1 12:30

If that's your condition, if that's your perspective of Jesus, then you are. It's an unforgivable sin because you're never going to seek forgiveness. If that's your view of Jesus.

Speaker 2 12:41

In what ways do we see blasphemy playing out in modern culture? I mean probably what we opened with, especially with regard to how people view God or the church.

Speaker 1 12:50

I have some atheist friends on Facebook. I have lots of atheist friends from my time in the pacific northwest and uh, easter they I always see some jokes about zombie jesus uh-huh, okay, does that? Does that fit the description?

Speaker 3 13:05

um, I remember being challenged in college by a guy. He asked me how many angels can fit on the head of a ballpoint pen and he said it in a very mocking way and I guess that's a famous, you know, like question.

Speaker 2 13:23

Well, the rock that Jesus can't lift.

Speaker 1 13:25

Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he couldn't pick it up?

Speaker 2 13:29

That's a relineation from the rock right. Oh my goodness.

Speaker 3 13:34

That is terribly blasphemous.

Speaker 2 13:36

Think about it Well and I think it's anytime when it comes to language and speech. A lot of times when something is a mockery or blasphemous, we're taking it out of the context and the definition of the way it's used and we're taking the reverence out of it and like when we say words like hell and we say words like OMG and we kind of add those things and obviously we're taking name in vain but we're also misusing something. Would you agree with that in our language?

Speaker 1 14:05

and speech. Yeah, blasphemy is more when you're it's like when you take the power of God, like that example of the Pharisees. It's like when you take the power of God, like that example of the Pharisees, and equate it to something else, to demons, or like with idolatry. That's a form of blasphemy because you're taking the almighty God and attributing him to this carved image which you clearly made yourself, and so that's blasphemy because it is slandering God. I don't know if that's exactly the same as mocking God, okay, but both would be offensive.

Speaker 3 14:33

Yeah, when I think of blaspheming God. I definitely think of like mocking God. That tops the list as far as when I think about blasphemy.

Speaker 2 14:48

So what would it look like in? So what would it?

Speaker 3 14:50

look like in. Well, like that short video of the gal at the Golden Globes talking about how they're a godless town.

Should Christians Be Offended?

Speaker 1 15:01

Yeah, the idea is let's see how many people, how many shout-outs have we had. So, mothers, we've had 15 shout-outs. People have said cast and crew. We've had seven shout-outs and acceptance speeches. God, the creator of the universe Zero. No surprise in this godless town.

Speaker 2 15:15

Yeah, which is actually kind of funny because generally, a question of its integrity is usually there right? I really want to thank God for allowing me to take and do this mockumentary about the Pope.

Speaker 1 15:30

Are you telling me God didn't help tim tebow throw those touchdowns?

Speaker 2 15:34

yeah, but so I I kind of want to just make sure it's like you're, you're, you're challenging the. Even the thought about blasphemy is disrespect towards god, but is all disrespect for towards god, blasphemy you're. It sounds like you're challenging that a little bit. Blasphemy is very specific.

Speaker 1 15:51

Because I think, if we want to get technical, blaspheming is an active attack on another person, but we'll say God, it's an attack on God, it's an attempt at slandering or lowering someone. Well, lessening God anything that lowers God's stature in the eyes of another is what blasphemy is. So if your intent is to bring God down a peg, to kind of deflate his image or something like that, if your intent is to bring down or destroy or defame, that fits the category of blasphemy. So even things like Nehemiah, chapter nine and verse 18, and talking about the golden calf, it says this your God, who brought you up out of Egypt and had committed great blasphemies. That's what they said about the golden calf. This is our God who brought us out of Egypt.

Speaker 1 16:45

And Nehemiah, chapter nine, verse 18, equates that with blasphemy. So that's more like what they're doing rather than what they're saying. They're saying this is our God. They're elevating something above God which has the effect of lowering God in everyone's eyes and that's an act of blasphemy according to Nehemiah. So I think intentionally trying to slander, defame, destroy the name of God is blasphemy If we want to be technical.

Speaker 2 17:15

Slander open. I think maybe I'm anchored by If.

Speaker 1 17:19

I'm trying to change your opinion, lower your opinion of God, to think less of him. That is blasphemy.

Speaker 2 17:24

That's a little different. Like, blasphemous is an umbrella term and mocking God would be one form of blasphemy like I'm thinking last crusade, when he says jesus christ and sean connery slaps him in the face that part yeah, when he says that, like, like, I, I guess. I guess some of these things are anchored and conflated, you know in the way that I've always kind of like internalized these things and I think it's pointing to pick him out and kind of, I would say, that would be irreverence, irreverence, right, because that would be what he should have said right and for me.

Speaker 1 17:58

in these situations I, I come back to I, I don't take offense. Um, I am bothered by things like the opening ceremonies, things that mock the broader christian religion, even though it doesn't specifically apply to me, because, again, when you look at some of the major denominations Catholic Mormon that's not following the Bible. I don't view myself as connected directly to any of them. I don't see them in the same kingdom of Christ that I'm in, so I don't feel attacked.

Speaker 3 18:32

Yeah yeah. It's like a joke about the Pope. I don't get it. I don't get upset about jokes that mock the Pope so much as, but if it's something that is a joke about God or that mocks God, now that to me that's but more offensive.

Speaker 1 18:48

So this is what bothers me is I don't ever feel really attacked, because a lot of this is just stuff that it's not spoken to me. Yeah, yeah, uh, but I, I, just, I feel sorrow anytime this happens because of the confusion that exists. Um, people are offended, uh, about something said about the Pope. Well, I'm, I'm just. It just reminds me that a lot of people venerate the Pope and that bothers me. I, I'm saddened by that. Just, it just reminds me that a lot of people venerate the pope and that bothers me. I'm saddened by that, so it upsets me, not from the way you might think. Uh, a great example, uh, beautiful song musically is john lennon's imagine.

Speaker 3 19:26

Oh, but the but the story of that atheistics, like yeah, like imagine there's, if there's no heaven, no hell below, kind of with the no religion.

Speaker 1 19:35

It's easy if you try, yeah.

Speaker 3 19:37

The underlying meaning being wouldn't it be wonderful.

Speaker 1 19:40

But it doesn't bother me because I feel like he's attacking me. It bothers me because I try to think what was John Lennon's experience with religion? It would be the Catholic church and the Anglican church, and if that's all he knows of religion, I understand why he'd write a song like that. Doesn't mean I like the song for that reason, but I understand, and that's what saddens me about that song is not that I'm attacked, but just that. How sad is that.

Speaker 1 20:07

That was his experience with religion that it is a bunch of hypocrites and big institutions that do some pretty bad things.

Speaker 3 20:18

I think that you make a good point there, kyle, that it's a good idea to try to understand where the people who maybe are saying these things are coming from. Not because we agree with them certainly we don't but so that we can figure out why are they saying this, why are they saying this, why are they doing this, and then that might give us some insight.

Speaker 1 20:36

So they did the opening ceremony like that.

Speaker 2 20:39

They said it was to be unified as into. Let's bring some aspects that are counterculture to religion and other things and let's bring them into religion as a way to unify, and that's just arrogance, right? That's just the thing that you have in any knowledge of these things and that can be one that can be done. Two if you're bringing something in that is considered thoughtful as sin or wrong and counter to Christ and then you're just blending it with it. That's their wish and that's a societal desire and hope and feel, wish, that that's what you can do.

Speaker 2 21:17

But that's very arrogant to think that you can just mesh, counter things to each other and and blend it as if they don't matter, right because, that's disrespectful to the original, and so I feel like that's what they were trying to do, maybe is to kind of we're all one, we're all together, so let's take all of our beliefs, and it's kind of what they were doing with those Super Bowl commercials last year about how Jesus he gets us, he gets us right and you had someone helping someone at the abortion clinic.

Speaker 2 21:50

You're trying to find two things and you're saying Jesus's approach to these people would be better. But what you're doing is you're trying to lower something down a peg and raise something up a peg and try to find the median between. You can't do that with gospel, yeah.

Speaker 3 22:28

And so I think that that's why it comes off as offensive. And so I think that that's why it comes off as offensive. It's this arrogance that you mesh, you know, religion with secularism and show everybody that we're all just part of the human race, and I think that that just shows a well, a lack of respect on their part for what we might or what the other side might believe.

Speaker 2 22:52

Yeah. So if we're looking at things like that specific example I opened up with, I don't know that we should get really bent out of shape about that. I don't think one should. But being able to spot the disrespect, and especially if it's coming to you directly, if someone's actively trying to be that to you, I don't think we should stand for it. If someone's actively trying to be that to you, I don't think we should stand for it. I think we need to draw lines. When people are trying to provoke us with disrespect towards God, we should address it the way we should address all sin and everything with love and with the intent to correct and to admonish.

What Is Blasphemy?

Speaker 1 23:31

I feel like how should we respond to these situations? I think sometimes we rush to get angry and I'm thinking of like back in 1 Samuel 8, when they demand a king and Samuel is angry about that and he goes to God and God says well, samuel, they didn't reject you, they rejected me. Thanks, but I don't need your help. Samuel, they didn't reject you, they rejected me, thanks, but I don't need your help. Or when Joshua comes running to Moses and said Moses, moses, these two guys are full of the spirit and prophesying. And Moses says relax, joshua. I wish everyone did. It's okay that others have some measure of the Holy Spirit besides just me. Or like that reference earlier about Peter in the garden, he pulled out a sword, was so quick to defend Jesus and Jesus said Peter, I don't need your help, put it away.

Speaker 1 24:19

Psalm 2 says why do the nations rage and the people plot a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves up and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and his anointed, saying let us break the bonds in pieces and cast away their cords from us. He who sits in the heaven shall laugh. The Lord shall hold them in derision. See, god looks at all the mockery, all the blasphemies, all the nations that rage against him. He's not intimidated, it's not going to affect him, and we shouldn't let it affect us too deeply.

Speaker 1 24:56

My recommendation would be is, first of all, pray Instead of getting angry. Take that anger and turn it to God in prayer and pray for people. And my second suggestion on how to respond to these things look at them as good conversation starters. Let's make something productive of this Rather than get angry. Let's ask people, someone who is angry about it, what angers you about it? Well, it's blasphemous. Well, how do you define blasphemy? Look at that as a good way to start a conversation about. Well, maybe you're just getting offended for things that doesn't really matter to God, and it's a good way to start those conversations.

Speaker 2 25:34

We should question and make sure that we are being respectful to God and we are not being blasphemous, and I think that one of the best ways to do that is to just look at Philippians 4, 8. Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is perfect, pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think on these things. I just think we should always try to keep pure mind, pure heart, especially when it comes to God, his word, and we don't want to ever have someone look at us and think that we are being flippant or callous or disrespectful or irreverent.

Speaker 2 26:17

We never want that. So when you're thinking about the music you listen to and the movies you watch and the things that you ingest in your own speech, you're thinking about your kids. There's very few things in life that are holy anymore. We can't ease up on God's word, we can't ease up on God and Jesus, and we need to secure it. We need to protect it for ourselves and for them and for our influence. And I really like how you know, kyle, you were talking about using that as an opportunity to talk about it right and ask people well, what do you think that their purpose of that was?

Speaker 2 26:50

Do you think that that was seen by other people? Do you think that that was that was seen in in by other people? Do you think that that was appreciated by other people? Obviously not. And so how would that unify people? How would that bring people together?

Speaker 3 27:01

I think it's good to be measured and and wise and emotionally uh controlled in our responses. If we do have interactions with people who, um, look at these things uh the other way, that that we respond to them in a way that that could potentially be influential and not just like, oh you idiot, or whatever, um not being not flying off the handle at them, yeah, just because we think what they're doing is blasphemous.

Speaker 2 27:33

I think it's okay to be saddened by that right. Oh, certainly, it's okay to just feel sad and that that's people's perspective of the God their creator. That's their creator that they're mocking, yeah Right, not even like your belief in that. Why are you messing with my beliefs? But their own creator, creator. They're mocking their own god, whether they acknowledge him or not. Like that's.

Speaker 3 27:59

That's sad yeah, and it puts, I think. I think I feel a little bit of a I don't know if burden is the right word but like a responsibility, like I, I need to share with people who are in that boat that I come in contact with the truth.

Speaker 2 28:14

Yeah.

Speaker 3 28:15

Yeah, John, thank you for an interesting discussion on a topic I don't think that really gets a lot of airtime on on blasphemy and helping us decipher what that is and and how we should respond to it. So if you have found this episode helpful or interesting, please like, subscribe, share with your friends and See you next time. See you next time. Don't blaspheme anybody?

Speaker 2 28:51

Yeah, watch your mouth. Yeah, you, yeah. Yeah't, don't blaspheme anybody. Watch your mouth. Yeah, you, yeah, yeah, yeah, where do you think Kyle blasphemy creeps into the church?

Speaker 1 29:07

That's a loaded question.

Speaker 2 29:09

No, I want you to call out people. Usually in podcasts, I want names, usually in the outtakes. Usually it's in the outtakes of our podcast. No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.