Exhorter Podcast
Welcome to the Exhorter Podcast where we aim to stir up love and good works, through bite-sized biblical discussion. This local effort of the Church of Christ located in Clovis California is hosted by Kyle Goodwin, Paul Nerland, Nate Shankels, and Jon Bradford.
Exhorter Podcast
55 - Self-Forgiveness: It's Ok to Let It Go
Struggling with feelings of guilt over your sins, past mistakes, or lingering regrets? Why do we hold on to guilt and regret of sin and why does it manifest in physical pain sometimes? Maybe like us, you are contemplating the concept of self-forgiveness and questioning its validity in comparison to relying on divine forgiveness. Come join us as we explore the alignment of self-forgiveness with biblical teachings and share insights on summoning the courage to release the burden of guilt.
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Welcome to the Exotic Podcasts where you can disturb love and good works through bite-sized biblical discussion. Today's episode comes from the wonderful mind of Nate Nate. What are we going to be talking about?
Speaker 2:Well, before I tell you what we're going to talk about, I'd like to read a letter. It was written to a man on death row by the father of the man whom the man on death row had killed. So I'm going to read that.
Speaker 1:So a light-hearted discussion yeah light-hearted discussion.
Speaker 2:Good job for sure. You're probably surprised that I, of all people, am writing a letter to you, but I ask you to read it in its entirety and consider its request seriously. As the father of the man whom you took part in murdering, I have something very important to say to you. I forgive you With all my heart. I forgive you. I realize it might be hard for you to believe, but I really do. At your trial, when you confess to your part in the events that cost my son his life and ask for my forgiveness, I immediately granted you that forgiving love from my heart. I can only hope you believe me and it will accept my offer of forgiveness. But this is not all I have to say to you. I want to make you another offer. I want you to become my adopted child. You see, my son who died was my only son, and I now want to share my life with you and leave my riches to you. This may not make sense to you or anyone else, but I believe you are worth the offer. I have arranged matters so that, if you will receive my offer of forgiveness, not only will you be pardoned for your crime, but you'll also be set free from your imprisonment and your sentence of death will be dismissed. At that point, you'll become my adopted child and heir to all my riches.
Speaker 2:I realize this is a risky offer for me to make to you. You might be tempted to reject my offer, but I make it to you without reservation. I realize it may seem foolish to make such an offer to one who cost my son his life, but I now have a great love and an unchangeable forgiveness for you. Finally, you may be concerned that once you accept my offer, you may do something to cause you to be denied your rights as an heir to my wealth. Nothing could be further from the truth. If I can forgive you for your part in my son's death, I can forgive you for anything.
Speaker 2:I know you never will be perfect, but you don't have to be in order to receive my offer. Besides, I believe that once you've accepted my offer and begin to experience the riches that will come to you from me, that your primary, though not always, response will be gratitude and loyalty. Some would call me foolish for my offer to you, but I wish for you to call me your father sincerely the father of Jesus. I know that was a little bit long, but I think that this letter showcases the power of forgiveness and today we want to look at forgiveness, but not just the topic of forgiveness. Specifically, within that, we want to look at the topic of self-forgiveness. I want to ask you guys a question Do you think that self-forgiveness is really a thing like we really need to forgive ourselves? The reason that I asked this question John probably edited it out, but there was like a 30-second pause there where neither of them were responding to my question.
Speaker 2:Maybe I'll share what. The reason that I share this is because I had a good friend who was well-versed in the scriptures and he was a psychologist. He said Nate, I don't believe in the idea of self-forgiveness, because the Bible doesn't talk about self-forgiveness and I thought that's interesting. And I can't recall a place where it says in the Bible thou shalt forgive thyself. So do you guys think that?
Speaker 1:we need to forgive ourselves. I think that the idea of self-forgiveness is an acknowledgement of God's power to forgive us, and self-forgiveness is us submitting to God's will, in belief that he has forgiven us fully.
Speaker 3:I think that's the idea, because, at face value, self-forgiveness if you want to get technical, yeah, see what your friend's point is. It's not in those words. That idea is not in the Bible, and the power to forgive sins is not. I can't forgive myself, but I think John is absolutely right that the Bible does talk about the concept, though, of when you realize and you feel the forgiveness of Jesus take effect. I think that changes how you live. I think that changes your attitude. I think that changes your state of being. You're at peace when you grasp the forgiveness that you've been given.
Speaker 3:Not that I accomplished that forgiveness, but it's and I think what you're talking about is, even though we've been forgiven, we still hold on to the guilt. Yes, and so it's letting go of the guilt. It's not so much changing our condition as far as guilty or innocent before God, but it's more accepting and realizing the validity of Jesus' blood to wash us clean, and then letting go of the guilt that we don't have to carry anymore.
Speaker 2:So why do some people hold on to that guilt?
Speaker 1:You know, this is funny because it was recently when my daughter confessed to me that she had done something. She's nine and she confessed that she did something and I think that we were really proud of her and appreciative that she volunteered and came to us and repented of that and we just the idea of her conscience being pricked. I don't think we're really focused too much on the punishment Because we want to instill the idea that they're going to come to us and tell us when they do wrong. But for the entirety of the week, after every day, she had a stomach ache and she kept on saying that she just doesn't know how to not feel guilty. She just still feels guilty and she was sad and it was bothering her and I didn't quite know how to. You know, she's a little young, to which I felt weird because it felt like she was inching towards this mindset that most people get when they're ready to become a Christian.
Speaker 1:It's this idea of this guilt and this, and so I didn't quite know how to respond, and it was just interesting, though, that I had to tell you it's guilt.
Speaker 1:It stays with you sometimes and it manifests its way physically you know and it's hard to get over, but you've been forgiven of it. You know you can let it go and the learn here is to make better choices, moving forward. It's interesting. What we're talking about is now, because it was very hard for me to figure out how to convey to a nine year old the idea of it's okay, you can let it go and move forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you can, you know, did you sing to her?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1:But you can step away from that guilt. But then again that made me kind of self reflect a little bit about, yeah, is it just easy for us to say, well, get over it. You know you've been forgiven, you know let that guilt go by. Or what is it innately in our self that wants to hold on to guilt? And why can't we just walk away from it and let it go?
Speaker 2:What's the deal there? So two things Don't let me forget about that, like, why do we hold on to it? But the first thing is I find it just absolutely fascinating not good, but maybe it is good, I don't know but fascinating that it manifested itself physically with your daughter, like she felt the guilt. And in Psalm 31, verse nine, david talks a little bit about the guilt and he goes be gracious to me, oh Lord, for I'm in distress, my eye is wasted from grief, my soul and my body also, for my life is spent in sorrow and my years was signed, my strength fails because of my iniquity and my bones waste away. And I think that that touches on that idea of David's sinned and it literally affected him physically and he was grieved. Or I think that that's talking about guilt. He felt guilty as a result of his sin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, as I think about it, they looked at us, and the relationship they have with us as their fathers is hopefully emulating what their relationship they will have with their father in heaven as they grow bigger.
Speaker 1:So make a strong effort to get down their level and look right in their eyes and say I forgive you and just kind of make that stronger effort. I don't know if I thought about it at that point and might have to kind of revisit that idea with her and with all my kids, but I think that that's important is to show them the forgiveness that God will show them and that they can expect from God, and then maybe their relationship with guilt and with forgiveness will be better and different in the future, when they think about God forgiving them.
Speaker 2:You make a great point, John, about just getting down on their level and being the reflection of God to our children. Whether you're a mom or a dad or really anybody, you're an example to somebody else and so being that example of God and getting down there as much as we can, reflecting Him and saying I forgive you, because when a child is truly penitent, we ought to forgive them, because that's what God does for us.
Speaker 1:I think it will be easier for us to convey God's forgiveness towards them when they're ready to become baptized and become Christians. I think it will be easier for us to say you remember how I forgave you, Remember how I did that. That's what God does. You reach this point where you're acknowledging all your sin and that you have done wrong.
Speaker 3:That's what God will do for you.
Speaker 1:And I think that that would be good for me to get a little reflection kind of go back there and look at that yeah.
Speaker 2:I can recall a time in my life when I was living in sin. I knew better. I was racked with guilt and shame. I can picture where I was standing when I felt this. Even now it's been 15 years, but I felt a tremendous sense of guilt and shame and literal physical pain, anxiety and insomnia for my sin. So I wanted to just ask why do we hold on to or why do some hold on to the guilt and shame that comes along with sin?
Speaker 3:I think that's a consequence of sin itself. Okay, and sin, by its definition, is failure. Okay, and we don't like failure. And it's hard to shake that feeling. Yeah, and I think that's just what Satan wants us to think after we sin is we failed and why bother trying? And we fail often when it comes to sin and it gets discouraging, yeah. But the problem with that thinking is when we still hold our sins, it's like we're tying a hand behind our back, we're limiting our ability to be useful to Jesus because we think, well, I've gone ahead and spoiled it all, like I can't be useful anymore, I'm a damaged product now.
Speaker 1:Right. What's the difference in between when you repent and you feel this weight being lifted? If you've done that and you felt a weight being lifted and you feel really good about that, what's the difference between that and a time where you still feel bad and worse, Like what do you think is going on in the mind that has different reactions to that?
Speaker 2:Well, guilt is something that God has placed within us or is a natural result of, I think, sin, like I think it's in 2 Corinthians he talks about. You know, godly sorrow produces repentance. He's talking about guilt, but I do think that there is a point in time where we kind of cross the line from here. Is guilt that is meant to motivate you to make better choices or perhaps even to fix the problem you created, versus guilt that is self-inflicted or self-pity, and I think there's a line there that at some point we cross.
Speaker 3:Guilt and shame can be very effective tools for accomplishing good changes. That was the key emotion on the day of Pentecost that led to thousands of baptisms. It wasn't just joy or excitement in hearing the gospel preached, they were peers to the heart. That's remorse, shame for their actions. And I think a good example of what you're talking about, nate, might be in 2 Corinthians 2. Now there was a lot of problems with that church and it's evident that a good number of them didn't care for Paul, disregarded his authority as an apostle and maybe even crossed some lines in their conduct with Paul, to the point where corrections had to be made where there was sin happening.
Speaker 3:So Paul writes in the 2nd Corinthians letter, beginning in chapter 2, verse 5, if anyone has caused grief, he has not grieved me, but all of you to some extent. Not to be too severe, this punishment, which is inflicted by the majority, is sufficient for such a man, so that, on the contrary, you ought rather to forgive and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one be swallowed up with too much sorrow. Therefore, I urge you to reaffirm your love to him. So sorrow was good for accomplishing the correction that Paul wanted to see with that particular brother. But he says I fear that you might be going too far now. Let's not give too much sorrow. Now reaffirm your love for him. He's felt the correct impact of that punishment inflicted by the majority, to use Paul's words, but anything beyond this is going to be excessive. It's done its thing. Now reaffirm your love for him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, okay. So that is kind of reaffirming the idea that there's a line that gets crossed there where that guilt can become too, or can become excessive. So that's really my question is why do some people I've done this why do some people hold on to that guilt as opposed to pulling an Elsa?
Speaker 1:Well, I can see someone feeling like Like, if you just bounce right back, you know and feel so free from that guilt that maybe you're not being humble enough or you know you're not being penitent enough.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 1:And like you need to wallow in that longer for it to feel.
Speaker 1:And I think, honestly, there's some parts of us that maybe it is kind of mental aspects of us and our mental health where we feel good.
Speaker 1:You know, some of us we might actually need and feel good to sit in those feels and those, you know lows and that can too much there can lead to depression and to other things, and I think there is some of us that maybe we were comfortable in feeling those because it makes us feel, like I said, more more humble or more penitent. But at the end of the day, I don't think if someone is having a hard time forgiving themselves or feeling forgiven, that that is showing that their faith is lacking. I think that then it might be you know, might be some mental health issues that they're struggling with and on a curve we all are on a bell curve. We all are struggling with something you know in the world of mental health at all times. So I think that as long as we need to self-reflect and try to understand why we think we're feeling that, if we can't acknowledge God has done this and he has forgiven us, why can't we move on?
Speaker 3:Well, leave it to John to crack open our skulls and psychoanalyze what's going on. There could be simpler answers too. Not to discredit his very good answer there.
Speaker 3:That's amazing answer and that wasn't sarcasm, actually I'm just being serious, but that is in John's wheelhouse to bring that stuff up. But to me I think it could also be as simple as it's a growth process. The very last verse in Peter's second epistle but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. What does it mean to grow in the knowledge of Jesus Christ? What does that mean? To grow in knowledge?
Speaker 2:To know more about Him.
Speaker 3:And how do you know more about God? Well, you study the scriptures, go to Bible class, learn, meditate on the text you study. I mean, it's a very simple, straightforward process. How do you grow in the grace of Jesus Christ? Isn't grace something you just have or don't have? How do you grow in that?
Speaker 2:I guess it would Go ahead, John.
Speaker 1:You gotta do a lot wrong and you gotta be forgiven. Should we sit more that grace? Too much, john, too much about God. Yeah, yeah, too much, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:But the point of this phrase again, that's the last verse in 2 Peter grow in the grace. How do you grow in the grace? It's a process and it shows that on an intellectual level you can understand your sins are forgiven. But the more you grow in this, the more confident you become. When I was a very young Christian I felt like every time I sinned that if I didn't go like 1 John 1 says we have an advocate with the Father. You confess your sins, he forgives you. So you're baptized, the blood covers your sins. But if you sin after you're baptized, you have to confess it. And in my mind that meant I fell in and out of grace all the time, like every time I sinned. Okay if I died right now, straight to hell.
Speaker 3:And I better pray, like just. All the time I was fearful. I didn't have that much confidence in his grace. Now to John's point. The answer isn't to go to the other extreme and put that grace to the test and sin as much as you want and say, ah, grace will cover it. That's overconfidence.
Speaker 3:But I've learned to trust in that grace. It doesn't mean I pray any less or any less fervently about my sins. But I'm not fearful, like I was as a teenager, about falling out of grace, because I feel like at this point in my life I've sinned plenty and it doesn't feel like it's ever going to stop. But I'm trying and I'm trying to learn and so I want to do my best and I've improved and grown spiritually in some ways. But I still fail in new and different ways than teenage Kyle did. But the difference is I have a lot more confidence in the grace of Jesus. I've grown in that to have that confidence, and so I know better now that I don't have to carry that weight when I sin. I need to remember those lessons. I need to remember the feeling of failure because it can motivate me, but that doesn't mean I am a failure and that's how I've grown in that grace.
Speaker 2:What a beautiful idea, kyle. That is just really thought-provoking and I can see myself kind of growing in God's grace over the years. Also, john, what were you going to share?
Speaker 1:I was just going to say that I think it's always helped me as Paul. Just the idea, even the idea of Paul has helped me, as an example of someone who felt that he was chief of the sinners.
Speaker 3:Could you imagine showing up at the church in Jerusalem after your conversion and being like Hi hey guys, I know I threw your cousin in prison and he's about to be executed. Yeah, sorry about that, I'm really different now.
Speaker 1:Like if you are feeling bad about yourself and how people view you and your influence, and just the guilt like, look at his writings and you'll see this acknowledgement and the self-reflective penitence that he had of knowing that he was chief among all sinners and he believed God had forgiven him. Yeah, and his journey back and his courage, that courage I think that we can imitate. There are other reasons that people might hold on to guilt and shame, and my daughter kind of shined the light a little bit on. It is as I'd ask her is that all you need to tell me?
Speaker 1:So it's like sometimes we hold on to things and guilt because maybe we haven't been honest about what we've done wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Maybe we've left some things out in our prayers or thoughts and or maybe needing to confess to other people if we've done wrong to them.
Speaker 1:Maybe there's still something there that we need to get off our shoulders and share, and so I think when we talked about accountability partners, yeah, before another podcast, I think if you have this kind of an issue, find someone you can really be open completely and share these things with. We are given the example to confess our sins to one another, yeah, and I think there's a value there that frees us a little bit. We can kind of hold each other accountable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was talking to my wife about this and I asked well, why do you think people hold on to it? She said maybe it gives them a sense of power. Like if I hold on to my guilt and my shame, I know how I'm going to feel, whereas if I let go of it, I don't know how I'm going to feel.
Speaker 2:I thought that was interesting, I hadn't thought of that. When I look back on my past and I think of when I have held on to guilt or shame, it was really very selfish because it allowed me to continue in whatever sin I was already engaged with. Sure, so like a self-perpetuating, you know negative loop, right when I committed some sin, I felt guilt and or shame about that sin. I felt worthless as a result of that and I figured well, what does it matter if I go and do that thing again, because it makes me feel good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and that's the idea that you're saying I'm such a sinner and you're not necessarily confessing and repenting of previous sins, but you're saying this is who I am and this action I'm living in and as long as I stay this repentant sinner, I can continue to sin and continue to repent of it, and it's the acknowledgement that you really haven't repented.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nor have I really wanted to repent. It's just I look at myself as worthless because, oh well, I look at this thing that I do. Oh my goodness, I can't believe I do that. Well, I'm such a worthless person, it doesn't matter what I do, so I might as well just go do this thing, because at least it makes me feel good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is where we need to rebrand how we see ourselves and this is one way where I've grown in the grace. When you fail, you tend to feel that failure some of us more than others and it's tempting to label ourselves as a failure and we call ourselves I'm a sinner and I see the truth to that and I don't go out of my to correct people when they say I'm just a sinner, that's been saying. But the problem is, when you talk like that, it's like you're setting yourself up for failure. I choose now rather to see myself as a saint, and that's not saying I've done so many good things, I'm deserving of a title, because that's not how saint is used in the Bible.
Speaker 3:In 1 Corinthians, Paul begins his letter with his introduction. He says I'm writing to the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints. That's your calling. I'm not a sinner. Jesus washed away those sins, and if I still feel like I'm guilty of those sins, then what does that say about my thoughts on the power of Jesus blood? It's not effective enough to wash me clean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you bring up a great, great thought, kyle. As I was preparing for this episode, I thought okay, so there's a sense of justice within all of us, and so we want for wrong to be punished, and a person who has maybe realizes well that sin should be punished, and maybe they hold on to their guilt and their shame as a form of punishment. So if that's the case, then by us not forgiving ourselves, we're basically saying, jesus, what you did for us isn't enough.
Speaker 3:Think about it in terms of a ransom. What you're saying is he paid the price with his blood to set me free. But if I don't feel free, I'm saying that his blood wasn't enough to secure my freedom, that he did not. It wasn't enough to pay my ransom, but I'm still under bondage to sin. That's what you're saying, and so we need to think about that's been let go, that debt nailed to the cross. I've been set free. I'm not a sinner. I sin. You sin you do too, john, but I'm not a sinner. I'm a saint. I'm called to be a saint and I need to think about myself as Jesus set me free to give me this purpose in life. I'm called to be a saint. Don't get a big head. You're not a saint because you've earned it, but Jesus paid for it and set you free, and I mean that's what it says in Colossians 2 and verse 13, that you being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh he has made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses, which ones weren't forgiven, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us and he has taken it out of the way, and having nailed it to the cross.
Speaker 3:Most people think that that's the Old Testament and I think, in a sense, yes, that was nailed to the cross. But the handwriting of debt, that's your sins, that's your guilt, that was nailed to the cross. I think that's what's being talked about in Colossians 2. He forgave all trespasses and took all the debt, all the IOUs, from your sins. He said let me just nail it to the cross, you don't wear it anymore.
Speaker 3:I think that's why Jesus makes it clear in Matthew, chapter 11, when he says take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart and you will find rest for your souls, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
Speaker 3:I have a burden for you, but compared to what you're trying to do on your own, it's bearable. Trying to carry the weight of your sins is unbearable. So his yoke, his burden that he gives us, is so light and easy that he calls it rest for your soul. We don't have to keep that fear, that worry that I'm a sinner, that I'm not good enough. Newsflash, you're not, but Jesus makes you. And the more you learn to have confidence and trust in that grace you're growing in that grace and the more you will see that I am unburdened by this. Now I will gladly take his yoke and do his work and dedicate my life to him and be called out as a saint and do the work that I've been called to do, because he takes away the heavier burden that I can't do on my own. That's growing in grace in my mind.
Speaker 2:So what are some practical things we can do if we are struggling with forgiving ourselves, like, what are some practical steps a person can take to let go of the guilt and the shame and grab on to the forgiveness that God offers?
Speaker 1:Now I was going to say I think of course prayer and maybe accountability, maybe someone you can share your feelings with. You fall and you need help back up. Maybe they can help you back up. So, I think those are two great practical ways.
Speaker 2:I was thinking about how to overcome it and I was just thinking of the prodigal son, and especially the last part of that story, where the prodigal son is coming back home and it says that the father saw him coming from a long ways off. And when I think of forgiving myself, I think of the father God looking at me. If I have sinned and I am coming back home. He wants me to come back home and when I get there he's going to forgive me. And if he's going to treat me like that, then I should be willing to treat myself like that too. And I know for me when I have been wracked with guilt and shame, that it doesn't just go away in a moment. It can take time, and so consistent prayer and asking God for a clean heart and for forgiveness on a regular basis is helpful.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you, nate, for giving us quite a bit to chew on in this episode and hopefully giving our audience a lot to think about. What did you guys think about this episode? Let us know wherever you listen to our podcast, look us up on Facebook and leave your comment. Let us know what you thought about this episode and we hope you subscribe and listen for new episodes every week. Thank you for listening to the Exordia podcast.
Speaker 1:That was kind of a wrap up. Okay, you want to thank us? Thank everyone for vlogging about us.
Speaker 3:Thank you very much for this wonderful episode. Thank, nate, you're welcome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank Nate and apologize for all that you've done in the last 40 minutes.
Speaker 2:You don't owe me to apologize, Kyle.
Speaker 1:Can you lead us out and say thanks to Nate, alright, alright, we'll see you guys next time.
