Exhorter Podcast
Welcome to the Exhorter Podcast where we aim to stir up love and good works, through bite-sized biblical discussion. This local effort of the Church of Christ located in Clovis California is hosted by Kyle Goodwin, Paul Nerland, Nate Shankels, and Jon Bradford.
Exhorter Podcast
53 - The Dicey Subject of Gambling
What is wrong with gambling? Is gambling a sin? Are innocuous friendly wagers and raffles wrong? What about investing? Join us as we unpack these questions and dive into gambling's relationship with our walk as Christians. Whether you're firmly rooted in your views on gambling or still pondering where the line in the sand should be drawn, this discussion is for anyone seeking a balanced dialogue on making wise and discerning choices when it comes to gambling.
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Welcome to the Exordr podcast, where it is our aim to stir up love and good works through bite-sized biblical conversation. John, today we're going to talk about gambling, which is kind of appropriate, because listening to this podcast is a bit of a gamble with your time. It may be worth it, it may maybe not.
Speaker 2:John, what's that?
Speaker 1:That's exactly the focus today. Why don't you elaborate on our topic for today?
Speaker 2:Sure, you know, I think there's been previous episodes where we'll be talking about something and then another subject comes up and then we say, well, we're going to have to talk about that another time, and this is one of those that's come up Bit of a running joke on this show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of something that and this one has come up multiple times. It's not where we're avoiding it, it's just one of those that's Any more, at least, any more at least. But it's come up with my own kids and asking me questions, and so we just wanted to give it its own due time to think about and talk about it. So this episode we're going to talk about what is gambling a little bit, but kind of why and when gambling is a sin. For many years gambling has in the church has been labeled, as you know, a sinful act. But I don't know if we have taught a lot about it over the years. We've kind of maybe just said it's wrong. So I think it's good to kind of dissect it a little bit and kind of understand what gambling is, if it's wrong, why it's wrong, how the world views it, what the Bible says about it, and then get some conclusions about how we talk about it and how we talk to others about it.
Speaker 1:And this will be a bit of a complicated topic to discuss because the Bible doesn't directly address it. So it's one of those areas where we have to kind of look at some principles in the Bible, look at some examples, try and extrapolate what the intention is from those texts and make some applications for today.
Speaker 2:I'm going to take the side in this conversation that the Bible has a lot to talk about it if we dissect it down and talk about what really is the issues with gambling.
Speaker 1:Well, John, how do you define gambling?
Speaker 2:Sure, let's define it. Let's find it by defining our terms here.
Speaker 2:Gambling is defiance as an activity where people bet or wage your money or something of value on a certain outcome with the hope of winning more than they risked. The result is often determined by chance and participants willingly accept the risk of losing their wager. So there's like four elements that they say constitute gambling. It's a game of chance or skill, a bet or something that is uncertain. Players risk money or possessions. Agreement, players agree to win or lose based upon the game, and then no fair trade is. Winners gain without giving anything of equal value.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that is the definition of gambling, but gambling is not found in the Bible. What is found in the Bible, what generally is found in the Bible? We talk about greed, covetousness. These are the things that we attribute to gambling. So when we talk about gambling, gambling could be kind of a category of things, but it's not the sum of all its parts kind of thing. Gambling in itself may not be a sin, but the actions and intentions behind the gambling might be what we're talking about. Just in general terms, what do you guys think is wrong with gambling as society would view gambling? What do you think is wrong with gambling?
Speaker 3:Maybe we should turn that on its head and say well, what is right with gambling?
Speaker 2:The list would be smaller.
Speaker 3:Well, what is wrong with gambling? I think that if you are frivolously spending money, or potentially spending money that you don't have or that could harm you or others, then I think that gambling with that is wrong. Sure, like, let's say, you're the provider of your household and you bet your monthly check, which is going to pay for your mortgage, on the upcoming football game.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of money put on that upcoming football game.
Speaker 3:So you're thinking, oh, I'm definitely going to win, it's a shoe in right. And then you don't. Okay, Well, how are you going to pay rent that month?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it usually is seen as bad when it comes into excess, because that's why they have all the radio anytime they have a gambling online gambling commercial. They'll have a tagline at the end saying, if you have an issue with this or a addiction to gambling, call this number because at the end of the day people acknowledge kind of like with drinking, acknowledge in an excess or take into a certain degree. Everyone in society understands that gambling can get bad, so is gambling wrong or is too much gambling wrong?
Speaker 1:What are we saying here?
Speaker 2:Well, let's look at gambling in general. As society views gambling, it is big business. Gross gaming revenue of 2022 in the US was $60 billion and has grown every year since 2020, $10 billion. So $60 billion right now and it keeps growing at a $10 billion rate. I bet those numbers aren't right.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's going to be a long running joke. Now. Here are some of the issues and we're going to go down the list and see what you guys think about them. But addiction so gambling addiction is a big thing. This can stimulate the brain's reward system, much like drugs or alcohol in leading to addiction. Are people influenced by money? Does it make them want to do things more when they have the chance to get more? Yeah, we know that we all have our susceptible to that. Gambling addiction is a big deal. Money issues Gambling too much can cause money troubles and lead to debt. So Americans gamble more money each year than they spend on groceries. An estimated 50 million people expected to bet about $16 billion on the Super Bowl in a given year. 23 million Americans suffering financial hardships from gambling debt, and it's further estimated that the average loss from those people is $55,000, with those with a gambling problem. So when it's a problem.
Speaker 1:It's a problem right, it must be old stats. It's probably not factoring in the cost of groceries by dynamics.
Speaker 2:It might be. I mean inflation that makes the question, though is it wrong?
Speaker 3:Does it really?
Speaker 1:matter if you're wagering $0.50 or if you're wagering $50,000?
Speaker 2:So that's a good question.
Speaker 3:Does the amount matter?
Speaker 2:Does the amount matter? Well, I mean, here's the thing. So let's keep looking. Mental health impact gambling addiction. It's very challenging to treat because 90% of those people don't seek help. So if you have a problem with it, most people don't actually look for help. How did they measure that?
Speaker 3:statistic.
Speaker 2:That's a good question. I'm reading some statistics from the American Psychiatric Society, and some of the things on here are kind of daunting, because here's the thing is this is the way that it's measured and seen through a science. This is not a biblical or religious website, right? This is how the world measures and sees this stuff. And this says for every 10 marriages that end in divorce, four of those 10 is because of money, right?
Speaker 1:So we can understand that right.
Speaker 2:So money has a large effect on people's relationships and happiness.
Speaker 1:This was an interesting study from about 30 years ago that in Harrison County Mississippi they saw the divorce rates rise from 440 in 1992 to 1100 in 1993, the first full year that gambling was legalized in that county.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, that must be a coincidence. More than doubled? Wow, that must be a coincidence, right? Wow?
Speaker 3:Was there a casino there?
Speaker 2:No, probably, and it's where most actually here's the thing is. So, 37 states to this point right now have, since 2018, when the Supreme Court overruled one of the major laws that says that online gambling, sports betting, could be legal 37 states have approved it. Do you know which one tried to approve it last year still, and they weren't successful California, isn't that odd? That's weird. Isn't that weird. I mean, everything else is legal here almost, but we.
Speaker 3:Do liberals not gamble?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean how much money that is influxed into the. I mean, that's why people do it, that's why the states do it. There's a lot of money to be made on this, so, and on people. I mean, look at the lotto alone.
Speaker 1:I wonder if it challenged the lotto right.
Speaker 2:Like we liked our poor person tax and that mega million, billions or whatever it is lotto.
Speaker 2:Billions. I think the real sad thing here is that when you look up youth exposure, kids might see an early start to gambling. People early in their 20s are the fastest growing group of gamblers. So adolescents, 12 to 18, nearly two-thirds engaging in gambling-like activities, and so a lot of this has to do with video games or different types of gaming things, with what they'll have is loot boxes, things where you spend money you don't really know what you're going to get and then you get different things. Well, it's suddenly increasing their exposure to this. Now, the question you brought up, let's get back to it. I don't have any stats or anything written down here to specifically suggest how much money is too much money.
Speaker 1:Let's say once I mean, you could go to the most innocuous examples. I had a friend that was a Denver Broncos fan, unfortunately, and this was back when Seattle and Denver were squaring off in the Super Bowl and we were going to go to this big Jeep event down in Moab, rock crawling, all that stuff. We made this little friendly wager Whoever, whichever team won, the other person would have to wear a bumper sticker on their Jeep for the whole week. And I slapped the Seahawks bumper sticker on the back of his Jeep for the whole Easter safari in Moab. And was that? I mean, that's technically gambling. We wagered something.
Speaker 1:It wasn't money, yeah, but does that seem wrong, and then you know you can kind of get a little more risk adverse here. By what? If just once a year the fantasy football league everyone puts in 20 bucks into the pot, winner takes all? That's the only gambling I do all year. Is that so bad?
Speaker 2:There's such a degree here because, yeah, we've done that before. I actually joined a league, drafted and then found out after the fact that there was a buy-in. I didn't know about it. So when I won the league, I actually gave the money back so that they would actually buy a trophy, you know, and then that could be like given, you know, basically everybody's money went to the trophy.
Speaker 1:So because of certain, guilt that I had about it. Two for one. You went from gambling to idolatry. Idolatry, no, I know great.
Speaker 2:But that's the thing is, it can be innocuous. We were walking down in Disneyland on the Pixar Pier and my son asked me is the arcade games in there that you spend money to and then you go shoot, you know, or throw something on the carnival games on Pixar Pier? He asked me if that was gambling, because you're putting forth money and you don't always guarantee to get anything in return. And then there's school raffles 50-50. Which is all goes to charity, but at the end of the day you can get something from it.
Speaker 2:That is the definition of the California Lotto no the big question is it seems like a sliding scale and what determines whether or not these kinds of activities are, let's say, not gambling, because gambling is a term we've given for it. The Bible won't say it, but when it is sin. And is it consciousness? Is it greed, is it all the things that?
Speaker 3:we see. So a question that I have, then, is like, if I were to invest in a company, am I gambling, like because I am putting money into this company? That is, there is some skill in running a company and there is some chance.
Speaker 2:I can always count on you that when, anytime, if someone brings up a subject. Yeah someone then brings up they don't address that subject, they bring up a. Well, what about?
Speaker 3:isn't there a name for that kind of argument?
Speaker 2:But I'm glad you bring it up because that is what people say if you're gonna attack this over here, this raffle that I like. Yeah, well what about this over?
Speaker 3:here. Yeah, the people who say that gambling is wrong, do they have a stock market accounts?
Speaker 2:a lot of the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think I have a good answer for Nate's question though. Yeah, that is a legitimate question, part of our investing yeah, part of our definition of gambling was risk, but we need to make that distinction that Not all risky endeavors are necessarily gambling, see, because if we're just gonna say anything that involves risk or the potential of failure, you shouldn't do it. Well, you should never be a farmer, because you might have drought that's a gamble.
Speaker 3:That's a good point.
Speaker 2:That's a good gamble there or starting any business.
Speaker 1:You can't just say that risk is the problem. Even the risk is a factor. When you gamble, you are risking losing a lot of money potentially.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's true in so many other legitimate areas of life, and so with investing, the main difference is, yes, there is risk, just like gambling, but the difference is, when we gamble, you're risking money, john, you're risking money, I'm risking money, but if I win, I get your money and you guys have nothing. And the difference is in Investing, nate, if you're, if you have a business, and I'm investing in your business.
Speaker 1:Yeah who who wins? You win because you're you're getting funding for your business and if your business prospers, I win because I'm getting a return on my investment. It's not a I win, you lose scenario. It's either we both win together or we both lose together.
Speaker 3:So you're basically comparing it to I was talking about. You're calling it a zero-sum game. It's it's a, it's not a winner.
Speaker 1:Takes. All it's a we're. We're working together, we're helping each other out in that investment scenario. So investing to me is not the same as gambling. Where I want your money it's I believe in your business. I'm gonna buy a part of your business to help you Build your business, but as you build it, I get something in return.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you for you to.
Speaker 1:Yes, there's risk for you to succeed others don't have to fail exactly, and I think that's the main distinction between investing and gambling.
Speaker 3:Should we not play games where there is a loser, as long as you don't?
Speaker 1:wage or anything in the day.
Speaker 2:The Bible doesn't specifically say gambling, but there are over 2,000 scriptures that talk about money and possessions in the Bible. So it's not something that the Bible is, is hasn't talked about and doesn't sure you know that's twice as many Bible verses than faith and prayer combined.
Speaker 3:So money and possessions are more important money has an impact.
Speaker 2:So, and that's, and honestly, there's a lot of Parables. Jesus has, with 38 parables, 16 of them are about money. Oh, mr, I do have numbers out. And so, when it comes to money, the Bible speaks about Stewardship, responsibility, work, ethic, love of money, contentment, covetousness, seeking God's guidance, unjust gain and addiction. Well, talks about all those in the context of money or possessions. Right, and so we have plenty of verses and focuses in the Bible where it talks about do not covet you what your neighbor has, do not, you know, seek quick gain over you know, a hard day's work. And so we had to.
Speaker 2:We're talking about principles of this, and I think that, when it comes to gambling, the real problem is this lust and this desire for more. And so, when we talk about gambling, I think that this is one of those self-management issues. It's really hard for me to tell the intent of someone else, because the argument you're talking about investing, but I've also heard the arguments of what about for entertainment? I spend $50 on a movie for my family, or I go spend $50 on this raffle ticket, or something right.
Speaker 2:And so if I lose it, that was entertainment to me and I budgeted for it and that's fine, that's money and we hear those kinds of arguments about it and I think it would be difficult to paint one large paintbrush across all arguments and say it's sin because of your heart and the way that you're trying to gain something. So that's why the word gambling, I think, is a problem where we've labeled it gambling, all these things like we've attributed it to covetousness and greed.
Speaker 2:Rather than just going on is that action that you're doing right? There Is that fantasy football wager or whatever it is. Is it greedy?
Speaker 3:Is it covetous Right?
Speaker 2:Like. The problem is when you use a word like gambling and stretch it over all these things and don't give any biblical context directly to that word, it's very difficult for people to make the self-management decisions.
Speaker 1:Because, yeah, you're going to make gambles in life. You're facing a challenging diagnosis and there's different treatment options. One of them is a gamble, but it might be a cure. The others are just. You know, this will make you more comfortable, but this is a gamble if we take this treatment. So you're going to do some things in life and that might be the choice you make. It's a bit of a gamble. You might make a move. We're going to move to this place. Maybe it won't work out, but that might be considered a gamble but it's not
Speaker 1:necessarily the same thing as like gambling for money. I think it's the greed and covetousness that's at the heart of it. That's what the Bible really speaks out against. So I can't know in your heart if you are playing poker with your friends every Friday night for small stakes just because it's fun or if you have a real covetous problem.
Speaker 1:I can't know what's in your heart, like you said earlier, john, but I think that greed and covetousness that's what it boils down to me is when you look at a scripture like 1 Timothy, chapter 6 and verse 10 that says the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith and their greediness and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. I think that's the real problem with gambling is, if we can't peg it as sinful, we can easily say it's sin adjacent. And why is it too that in all the places where you think of gambling there's so many other high crime rates associated with the gambling, that we already talked about the rise in divorce rates in places where casinos are and gambling has been legalized. But in the first three years after Atlantic City legalized gambling, it went from 50th to 1st in the nation per capita in crime.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because, we use a lot of money. How do you get that back? A lot of people result in criminal activities. I mean, it happens.
Speaker 1:And in the first five years that Deadwood, south Dakota, legalized gambling, serious crime rose 93%. And so, and you just look at these places like Las Vegas, reno, you go to the doctor, they're also serving a lot of free alcohol.
Speaker 3:Well, and that's my point, though, is that's not gambling, that's drunkenness.
Speaker 1:A lot of sexual promiscuity in these places. When you go to Vegas, which I've been a couple of times one time was just because my car broke down there and I was stuck for a couple of days there's a lot of places you need to avert your gaze, A lot of advertisements, a lot of billboards, so there's a lot of sexual promiscuity. There is a lot of alcohol flowing. There is, I mean, as much as I like eating a good meal. There's gluttony too, with you pay $15 for this huge buffet because you can go there and stuff your face.
Speaker 1:So there's so much excess and gambling is kind of like I said, that sin adjacent, like a gateway kind of thing where so many other sins and vices. Why are they always in places like Vegas, atlantic City, where the casinos are? That's a good point because if it's, if you can't say it's sinful, it's definitely sin adjacent and attracts sinful behavior, at least just from casual observance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what was all the, the stats and everything that we talked about in the beginning of this? Like I said before, that's not even Religious perspective on it. That's society telling you guys, there's something dangerous about gambling, there's something dangerous about it, and I think that anytime we have, we can label something and see something as dangerous for people in general their health, their livelihood, their relationships. We should be, we should hold our arms out and try to keep it away from us as much as possible. Now, does that mean that we we never, in our own homes or in our own lives, you know, dabble in some of these, these kinds of things? I think that these, of course, are some of the things that we're talking about when we say you need to make those decisions for yourself.
Speaker 2:That's not what this podcast is doing. We're identifying some of the problems with these things and then the that kind of infer how we might Believe and think about them and how I might raise my kids. But this is going to be one of those choices that you're gonna have to make for yourself. Yeah, how close can I get to something without going over?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So when you said that, it reminded me of a discussion I had recently with my father-in-law and he said well, um, do you really want to see and I think we've talked about this in episode Do you really want to see how close you can get to the line of sin before crossing it? Or do you want to see how close you can get to God and how close you can become to him? And so it's kind of like well, is playing poker with my buddies on a Friday night Wrong? I don't. I don't see anything wrong with that. I can spend 20 bucks, go into the movies, and as long as I am not violating my conscience and I am not causing them to sin, well, I don't see that as being wrong. But is that going to draw me closer to God or is it gonna help draw them closer to God?
Speaker 2:Well, in 1st Corinthians 6, 12,. This is all. Things are lawful for me, but all things are helpful. All things are lawful me, but I will not be dominated by anything right. So I think that just because something you can maybe lawful doesn't mean it's helpful in your effort to win others. Or if.
Speaker 2:I got, or teach your kids because, like I said, as far as hereditary, you know a lot of people who have gambling problems. They see their parents doing it. I can see it and you need to be cautious about the way that you talk about these things and teach about them to the next generation.
Speaker 1:I can see this as a good way of bonding. I mean, why do you think you watch a western movie? And it's like every time they're not working they're sitting around the campfire, they pull out a deck of cards, or anytime there's downtime. You know, my favorite mini series is Lonesome Dove, and Gus has got to go into town and play poker and just anytime he gets a chance, because it's just you're kind of learning about the other people.
Speaker 2:I could see where until you get stabbed in the back or get dead man's hand. I'm looking at the saloon right where he's in eights.
Speaker 1:Until you're sitting around and someone doesn't like that.
Speaker 2:Someone doesn't like that.
Speaker 3:They just lost the money and they pull nowadays, when you sit down to play poker with your buddies, they're usually not pack and heat.
Speaker 1:I I guess it depends on your buddy usually.
Speaker 3:I guess it depends on your buddies. Sorry, kyle, you can finish your point now.
Speaker 1:I Guess a parallel I could see here would be like with alcohol. And and you're right, john Our purpose in this podcast isn't necessarily to give you, the audience, the answer and tell you everything you need to know. It's that we might have variances in our opinions and perspectives and scriptural understandings. But we're just trying to talk through these topics and walk you through different aspects of it too so that in your own thought process you can kind of think through some of these thoughts and come to your own conclusion. But if we compare this to, say, alcohol, it's another subject where Drunkenness is absolutely condemned in the scriptures, both testaments plainly and same thing with covetousness and well, failure, greed and failure to provide. I mean, that's very plain in the New Testament if you don't provide for your family, you're worse than an unbeliever. So I could look at it in that same way, like with alcohol.
Speaker 1:If I know of someone that has a bottle of wine throughout the week, maybe a glass or two at dinner every now and then. I Don't like that personally, and you know I've never tried alcohol. I don't really care to ever give it a try. I don't see any redeeming quality in it, but maybe, maybe you do and I know that about you. I might tell you my thoughts and opinions or my feelings about the matter, but the end of the day I'm not gonna call you out as a sinner. I don't think I have the scriptural grounds to do it. But if I see you Swerving in traffic and crash into a light pole because you're drunk, that's, that's gonna be a problem for me.
Speaker 1:If I know that you are drunk or an alcoholic, you have crossed a line and that's something where the Bible talks about sin. So it kind of making that parallel to gambling, something like wagering, if you have to put a bumper sticker of the other person's team on your car, that's like. That's like cough syrup, right, yeah, okay, technically it's alcohol. Technically it might make you a little intoxicated, but not in any serious way. But the closer you get to like real debt, real problems and you know, nate, what you describe playing poker with your buddies once a week or once a month I Still see that as a huge difference and it makes me so sad. You guys ever been in a casino and seen? That's always people like over 60 years old.
Speaker 3:With their cigarette and their free beer or whatever and they just look like zombies.
Speaker 1:Those are the same boomers that talk to talk to millennials. You guys always have a screen in front of you. Well, so do you. What are you doing? So I? I kind of see it that way where, like with alcohol, if I know you're you're having debt problems, if I know you are failing to provide for your family because Gambling is a problem, I'm gonna call you out on it. Anything before that, I Feel like it's fair game to give you a piece of my mind. Or well, maybe that's too strong.
Speaker 1:We're gonna give you my opinion and say I don't think this is why it's in like with alcohol Drunkenness is crossing a line yeah, why would you play with fire? Why would you try and get up to that line? And same thing with gambling is yeah, there's gonna be some innocuous ways that it kind of creeps into our life. But if you're pursuing it, you always need to be reflecting and asking that question Am I, am I becoming greedy? Am I pursuing money? Because it's not just the pursuit of money. That's the problem. It's that it leads to all kinds of other sins and vices as well. According to first Timothy 6, do you think?
Speaker 3:it's important the way we talk about Gambling and the words we use when we talk about gambling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cuz I was just thinking you know one of the things I need to do better when it comes to instructing my, my kids you know when James asked me if that's wrong. I you know. When you talk about the motivation or intent behind it, well, what are you doing it for? Or why would you do that? You know you start having those conversations about what's the what's the mindset behind it.
Speaker 3:What is your mindset behind?
Speaker 2:that that doesn't make it good or not good alone, but that matters your, your purpose, your mindset about it. And then, well, let's say something is okay, lawful for me to do. I'm probably gonna choose not to do it though. Well, why, you know, and where you're not saying, not labeling everything is sin around you and you know, hoisting up these walls where the Bible doesn't specifically talk about it. But it's a bigger impact to say I believe I could do that, but I'm not going to. So I am not going to because my influence, because I don't want to set a precedence, because I don't want to Walk down that path and not know when to turn around, because if you've ever won something, we tell you what. If you ever won a deck of cards or you know a game like that, like it's called, it's like a runner's eye, right, like there's something exciting about that kind of hard to turn around. John, have you ever had a runner's eye?
Speaker 1:I ran, you know I seem to be the most pro gambling on this episode. I also seem to be the least experienced with it. I bet you're wrong. Well, mate, another way, I think it's important when we when we're careful about the way we talk about gambling, is the question you asked, when we talk about chance or Luck. More specifically, yeah, what is luck? Who is luck? What is this force that is? You know this?
Speaker 2:on my side.
Speaker 1:You know, like Maverick has his eyes closed as he reaches to turn over that last card, does he have the straight flush? It's, it's just.
Speaker 3:Probability like but you know, chance was an aspect that the Bible even talks about, when they were, you know.
Speaker 1:Okay, is it wrong to gamble if you're counting cards, because then it's a matter of skill.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What we're trying to do, those we're just we're trying. What is the force behind and I'm using air quotes for you listening, lady luck. Yeah, yeah just trying to replace God with some sort of unknowable Force. Like luck is on my side. I know if I just keep going I'm gonna win. If I pull the lever one more time, it's gonna yeah well, that's what you look at.
Speaker 2:Verse like Proverbs 3 you know five trust and lord with all your heart and do not lead on your own understanding.
Speaker 1:So when we talk about luck, I try not to use the phrase Well, it's just, you know, it's just my good luck today. Well, we're attributing something to some force out there, but not talking about that. We did the knock on superstitious and will stitch us up said maybe we can just say it's I was very fortunate today, or it's my good fortune that this happened to me today, but not God bless me with the straight flush.
Speaker 2:But that's honestly. Honestly, I read some. I read some articles that said that those who are religious are these days more susceptible to a gambling problems because they do attribute their winnings in their their, the probability of their winnings, to their faith in God, and that God wants them to win and when they lost? Well, it's not, it's not time yet. It's amazing what the mind does and works in those ways. But I mean, that's what the televangelists do and they say, hey, give us money, you'll be rewarded tenfold right.
Speaker 1:I mean sometimes casting lots was done for something very significant. That's like yeah, but casting lots it's like saying you're leading the selection of an apostle people always bring cast lots into this to this conversation.
Speaker 2:It's the proverbial paper rock scissors at the time.
Speaker 3:I think that's the difference between chance and gambling, like there's a matter of chance in everything, but I just see who went first, or whatever.
Speaker 2:It's paper rock scissors. Okay, that's not like. First of all, it's rock paper, scissors, not paper.
Speaker 3:I got out of our.
Speaker 1:Kyle's for. Star Wars fans, it's. That would be the equivalent of chance cubes. What?
Speaker 3:I wanted to say earlier because I think it's important when it comes to the way that we talk about it. So I remember when I was younger there were a lot of things that were talked about that they were labeled as sin. Dancing is sin, gambling is sin, drinking alcohol is sin. And when I looked and when I studied the Bible for myself, I realized you lied to me the Bible. Murder is sin.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 3:The Bible does not say Drinking alcohol is sin. Not, I agree that it's planned with fire, but it's, it doesn't say that it's in. So let's speak like the Bible speaks about these things. Yeah, it does not say gambling is sin. It does say greed and covetousness are sinful. So let's talk about it like it is. Well, greed is a sin, so why are you gambling? Covetousness is a sin, so why are you gambling? So I think it's just important that we talk about it like the Bible talks about it, so that we don't confuse or Well, no you represent what the scriptures say, even if it's unintentional.
Speaker 2:Let's just be more careful to talk about things the way the Bible talks about super important nowadays because of Deconstructing Christianity, of all these movements of people, and especially on YouTube and online, getting together and talking about how they were spoon-fed the gospel and this is what they said and they were wrong on this point.
Speaker 3:So let's look at all the points and find how they could be wrong and start pulling it apart so, like once I found out that those things weren't discussed in the Bible as Sinful, yeah, like you know, gambling or whatever I wanted to go the opposite direction, more so than I should have. Right, like oh well, if Gambling doesn't say gambling is a sin, so it must not be a sin in any fashion. Yeah and so, and that's the risk of doing topics like this is.
Speaker 1:Are you saying we gambled on this topic?
Speaker 2:We it's important to talk about everything, and we're gonna talk about some really heavier things, I think, in this next year because I think it's important to not not talk about something because it's maybe under misunderstood or divides people. I think it's important to talk about these things and see where people are coming from, and the more that we disagree around this table here, I'm not afraid of that. I think that that's an opportunity, then, to really understand where everyone's at and how we can better model conversations about these subjects to other people.
Speaker 1:Well, I hope this episode has given you some food for thought, that in in every day of our lives, we need to stop and reflect. Am I letting my light shine? It are my choices glorifying God? And when it comes to gambling, we need to remember that it's greed and covetousness and the love of money that is really the problem behind it. And so, even in the most innocuous ways, we at least need to be asking is this, is this gonna lead to something worse? Is this a bigger problem in my life than I've let on? And how does this, how does this practice or behavior or decision Reflect Christ in my life? To those around me, if you have a serious problem with gambling or you think you, might.
Speaker 2:1-800 gambler is the phone number for the national problem gambling hotline. You can also text 800 GAM, 800 462 it serves. There is a resource for individuals who may be struggling with a problem gambling or gambling addiction for their loved ones. When someone contacts 1-800 gambler, they'll receive support, information and referrals to services that can help them address their gambling related concerns. 1-800 gambler it's not a crisis hotline designed for emergency services. Eating crisis.
Speaker 3:Please call 9-1-1 or 9-8-8 Should shouldn't we say you can also contact us and we'll have a Bible study?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, just reach out if you have any concerns about this podcast, this episode, and we'd love to talk to you.
Speaker 1:We thank you for listening and encourage you to if you haven't already like and subscribe to our YouTube channel, our Facebook page, for the latest updates and thank you. You know a song you need playing at the beginning and end of this episode? I got a no.
Speaker 3:Never count your money. I'm just thinking of the scene from dumb and dumber where he says I bet you 20 bucks, I can get you gambling by the end of the day. I'll give you three to one odds Nope, I'll give you five to one Nope, I'll give you ten to one. You're on. I don't know how I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna get you, that's great. Yeah, he doesn't realize. He just did it oh.
