Exhorter Podcast
Welcome to the Exhorter Podcast where we aim to stir up love and good works, through bite-sized biblical discussion. This local effort of the Church of Christ located in Clovis California is hosted by Kyle Goodwin, Paul Nerland, Nate Shankels, and Jon Bradford.
Exhorter Podcast
40 - Welcoming Visitors
Remember that time you walked into a room where everyone else seemed to know each other, and you felt like an intruder? Picture that scenario, but this time you're walking into a Church of Christ, trying to find solace and connection. In this episode, we peel back the layers of what it's like to be a newcomer in a church environment. We begin with exploring how simple actions of door greeters can shape a visitor's first impression and why it's necessary to ensure a warm and familiar ambiance for them.
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Welcome to the Exordr Podcast. We're here to stir up love and good works through bite-sized biblical discussion. Kyle, you have our topic for today. What are we talking about? It should actually preface we have three of the four here right now. We have Nate, we have Kyle, we have myself, Paul's out of town.
Speaker 2:No, you shouldn't mention that we should just every like a few minutes be like Paul. Do you have something to say? Paul's uncharacteristically quiet today.
Speaker 1:I might be a little bit here, because he took his wife to San Diego. Nice little destination spot. It is really hot here, it's like 112, 113.
Speaker 2:So they're escaping the heat, lucky for them, but we're going to, it's like that level two and Super Mario Brothers on original Nintendo, where the sun chases you and tries to kill you, that's.
Speaker 1:Fresno in the summer. I know there's worse places out there.
Speaker 2:Well, I want to talk about new experiences where you feel a little bit out of place. So that's not a very common thing for me, because I always have so much confidence in everything I do and that's just how I am Humble too. You're able to Incredibly humble. But there is one example that sticks out.
Speaker 2:A number of years ago, when I lived in Utah, we used to play volleyball after church and someone got the bright idea that we should do a rec league and I was like, okay, that'd be fun. So I signed up and I kept getting penalized for things that I had no clue. I was like, well, I do this all the time Sunday nights after church and it's no one says anything. I had never played organized volleyball before and I was finding all kinds of things like you can't do a backwards spike with an open hand. You have to punch the ball. You have to close your hand in a fist if you're going to hit it backwards like that or that something that I thought was a set. If the ball spins a certain way, they'll call you for a care, it's like. And I just kept getting frustrated because I kept thinking like I didn't know this, I didn't know this and it was making me want to quit, but I stuck it out. And it's not like I got any good at volleyball, but I got to the point where I learned enough to enjoy the experience.
Speaker 2:Then I moved to Texas and stopped playing. But that's just one of those experiences where I felt like a fish out of water. I didn't know what was going on, I didn't understand the rules and that was a discouragement to me. And I bring up an example in volleyball because what I really want to talk about, of course, is the church, and when a visitor walks through our doors, what is their experience like? And so the reason I bring up volleyball is because I've spent my whole life in the Church of Christ and it's the most familiar thing to me. Like on a vacation maybe you guys can relate I might be in a different city, different town, different state and not recognize anything, not recognize the climate. It's totally different atmosphere. But then I walk into a Church of Christ on a Sunday morning and instantly I'm at home, even though I don't know anybody. It's just a comforting environment.
Speaker 3:So it's kind of like Costco or Walmart or Target. Right, they're all organized the same. I can go into Walmart in Alabama and it's the same as Walmart and Fresno.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like when I'm a guest preacher somewhere, I don't really need them to tell me when to get up to preach. I just kind of instinctively know when to do it, because it's not that different from here at Clovis or anywhere else. I've lived in a church I've been a part of, so for me church feels like a very familiar place, but I understand the concept of feeling out of place and how discouraging that can be. So, even though it's very familiar and comfortable to me, I would hate for someone to walk in the doors here at the church in Clovis and feel discouraged or frustrated, like they don't understand what's going on or they're confused, and to walk away feeling like I didn't like that. I don't want to come back.
Speaker 3:Like they walk in and there are some unspoken rules that they just don't know and they just automatically feel out of place because it's like oh well, you know kind of embarrassing, Like I didn't know I was supposed to do this, or it always bothers me when someone, a visitor, says I feel so underdressed and well, that's not, or I didn't know.
Speaker 1:We don't clap during songs, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:That would be really uncomfortable, you don't?
Speaker 1:clap during songs. Yeah, you just start laying into it.
Speaker 2:So first of all, just I've got the two of you guys here. You guys are deacons at the church here in Clovis and I think you guys share the task of overseeing the visitor process. Let me just ask you guys, like this might be helpful information for other people out there what is your hope for an ideal visitor experience? What would you like to see happen when a visitor walks through our doors? What are some things you want to see happen?
Speaker 1:Can we get live Q&A right now? It's really nice to have. Let me get the manual Visitors to answer that question. Can we have visitors call in and tell us right now, please?
Speaker 3:Yes, call John.
Speaker 2:So I'm just thinking of like well, you could talk about the door greeters, because I know you work on that too, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, I want visitors to leave feeling like I would do that again. I would come back. This is a very warm, welcoming group of people, and I think that does start with the door greeters. And so I think your question was what would my expectation of an ideal visitor experience be?
Speaker 3:They walk in the door, they're greeted by someone with a big smile on their face and a handshake and they start a, you know, simple but friendly conversation. It's more than just hey, how's it going? And then onto the next person, but hey, how's it going, I'm so-and-so, and talk at least a little bit, and then we would like to get their contact information. Obviously they're interested. They showed up, so we would love to get their contact information if they'd be willing to fill out a visitor card. And then it would be my hope that they could get passed off to an usher who would help them find a seat. Because, boy, I mean, I've worshipped here for seven years now and sometimes I'm intimidated walking into the auditorium and people are standing and talking to each other and I'm like whoa, you know, where does my family usually sit again?
Speaker 2:Yeah, or you find a place, an empty spot on a pew, but it looks like someone's Bible you know, in a carrier or something sitting right there, or it's like is this someone's place or there's some sort of personal effects there, when you're just thinking, maybe I shouldn't sit there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if that happens, do you like scoot past it and then sit down in the middle, or do you just go to a different aisle?
Speaker 3:Well, these are the questions that you ask.
Speaker 1:Am I supposed to sit here? Am I not supposed to sit here?
Speaker 2:Well, John, what are some things you'd like to see from a?
Speaker 1:visitor's experience. You know I'm just kind of like jumping on board with Nate here to help out with this kind of effort, I think recently. But what I've been thinking about is, in anything you do, setting realistic or any expectations is important, and so we've talked about trying to do some things, either through the Bolton or some sort of handout, that at least kind of gives them a little insight to what to expect. If you've never been in a church of Christ or you've never been into a church gathering, what is this plate passing in front of me and why are there no instruments or what's going on during the worship that then explains what they're going to and how long they're going to be there for and how long the preacher might be preaching. I think setting those expectations up front that might be a real good thing, and so we talked about maybe there's something that we can do to communicate that, and sometimes websites do that for people. You know they'll check the website before they go there and understand what time to.
Speaker 2:Don't turn this against me, but a welcome video is a really good way to communicate that as well. Yeah, I do.
Speaker 1:There's lots of resources people will use. But I think giving some expectations of what to expect is an important thing. And then, yeah, I mean that positioning of where you're sitting in the building. You're most comfortable, I think, in the back outside edge. You just kind of on the periphery. You can kind of look and see what everyone else is doing and then I can follow along, you know. But when the only pews open and available are right up front in the middle, that's really intimidating. I would be intimidated with that as well.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's kind of interesting, like almost a reversal of James chapter two. You know what we don't want to see happen. When a visitor walks in, it says in James chapter two for if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings and fine apparel and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, you sit here in a good place and say to the poor man, you stand there or sit here at my footstool. Have you not shown partiality among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? You might think like the place of honor would be up front, but today people would be more comfortable sitting in the back in most situations, and that's an important consideration as well.
Speaker 1:You know we had a strong emphasis in the congregation I grew up in about dress and so that was such a big thing. To this day my conscience has kind of been seared with kind of a perspective sometimes where I equate someone's dress sometimes with their perceived engagement or desire to take this seriously. And it's not always the case, even with members, let alone a visitor. I think that suppressing that perspective or urge to kind of eye them up, it makes you a little bit more, you know, open and able to greet. But also we shouldn't have that expectation on people. It gets too much in the way of what we're trying to do here. So I shouldn't wear my tuxedo that I just bought.
Speaker 3:No, jim, no yeah.
Speaker 2:And, of course, you know, I'd recommend going back and listening to our episode, if you haven't already, about how one should dress for worship. We have a pretty good conversation there.
Speaker 1:We have a point to our point. I took the affirmative, you took the negative on me. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and maybe the traditional notion that for the last century or so is dress your best. Maybe our best can be too much sometimes, but I think there's some individual reflection required. As I said earlier, I find it very frustrating when that's a visitor's impression that I feel so underdressed, and it doesn't mean that sloppy is not at all what I'm suggesting everyone wears and you know there's nothing wrong with dressing coat and tie. But there's a reason why when before I get up in there to preach I've got my coat off and sleeves rolled up and as soon as I'm done preaching the coat comes off and I loosen the tie a little bit.
Speaker 1:That's because it's 112 outside.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because I'm a big fat, sweaty guy, but also no need of visualization.
Speaker 1:But there is a I want to be presentable.
Speaker 1:There's an inviting perspective about someone who is not a three-piece suit or tuxedo, standing in front of a door. We are in a constant state of comparison throughout our lives. We look at the people across from us and we think, okay, how do I fit in with this conversation or in this place? And I think one of the goals in trying to be more inviting to visitors and bring people in is to just reduce that a little bit and make them feel more comfortable. And that could be, but I do think the pendulum can swing the other way and members, absolutely as members and as people who are here, I don't want someone to walk in and get the impression that we don't really, we haven't prepared to be here.
Speaker 1:It can go the other way, right? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Don't swing the pendulum too far, the other way for sure. Well, let's just talk really practical about some things we can do. And I think it starts with just a visitor's first impression. And you know when we have the workdays at the church building, that's important. You know the weekly upkeep of the exterior of the building is excellent and it's always in good shape. But sometimes we need those projects and I'm glad that guys and you know men and women turn out for the workdays we have here, because I think that's important.
Speaker 2:You know we don't want to focus too much on the exterior, and you know the pretty building and the lovely grounds, but also that can be a turnoff for someone. It starts with their very first impression, which could be the website or when they initially drive up, and so we want to keep things neat and tidy throughout the week. When I see trash I pick it up because it's easy to do and we can all just do simple things like that to make this a good place to be. We want this to be a pleasant atmosphere because what we do here in this building is more important than the building itself infinitely more. But we don't want the building in the facilities to become a distraction. So just the very first impression when a visitor drives up. I think we want to offer something that's clean and presentable and generally pleasant to be.
Speaker 3:When I think of first impression, I just think of a warm smile, someone who's genuinely interested in knowing your name, in meeting you. Let's say, we didn't have a great first impression with our website or the grounds you know our building and where it's at. But if the first personal impression you have is someone who is really interested in meeting you and has a big smile on their face and wants to know you better, then I think most of the time that person's going to come back and they're going to feel welcomed.
Speaker 2:Romans, chapter 12 and verse 10 says be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love in honor, giving preference to one another. I think if that's visible, if we're displaying that kind of fervent brotherly love for one another, I think, if that is apparent, that we putting our best foot forward. And other simple things too. How many times have you guys had to go to the store or go somewhere and the parking lot's full and you just like I'm going to do it some other time, my wife goes to the store.
Speaker 3:I don't go to the store.
Speaker 1:I cannot relate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do that all the time. Or like I'll go to a restaurant. There's a long line and I'm like this ain't worth it. Oh, 100%. I think the same thing could happen here. So I try to be mindful of that. I don't want to take one of the closest spots. Now someone has to, and I'd say if you're over 80 years old, you're entitled to one of those front few spots by all means. But just be mindful of that. If the parking lot starts looking full, if you're young and reasonably healthy, just park a few spots down from where you normally would Save a few spaces up front. I've been at churches where the parking lot was never full and it didn't really matter.
Speaker 2:But Sunday morning is probably more important than other times. Sunday night, wednesday, is probably not as big a deal, but Sunday morning you just be aware of that. Some other things too is, I think, the warm greeting right away, and we have people that are selected and go through just a basic training on how to be a greeter. But this is a job for everybody in the church. We have those initial people that are there and it's there. They take responsibility for that job, but it's everybody's job.
Speaker 2:It's everybody's responsibility that when someone walks in, we want them to see a friendly face, a smile, a handshake and just a little bit of get to know you kind of conversation. Well, if you're sitting in the back four or five rows, that's probably where visitors are going to go, so you need to be most aware of that. That. If someone sits down next to you or on your pew that you don't recognize as a regular member, they're probably a visitor. It's your job. Take that on your shoulders, as, even though I'm not an official greeter, maybe it's my job to go and say hi to them.
Speaker 3:I can feel welcome. Yeah like they belong here and like they're not a stranger on this row you know sit down, have a seat.
Speaker 1:So you're bringing up a lot of practical, you know, small things that all add up to the experience in which they're there, and it's very similar to customer service experience. We all know when it's bad, right, I mean, you don't have to be told when someone cares or doesn't care about you as a customer, let alone as a visitor to something as important and special as worship service. So you need to put on that sense of caring. Your genuineness will shine through. I mean, if you actually seem happy to meet people and repeat their name, do the things that make people feel listened and heard and acknowledged as an individual person and not just, oh great, tally, mark, we got that visitor.
Speaker 2:That is such an important thing, especially for a repeat visitor.
Speaker 1:Well, that's why waiters come to your table and say hi, my name's Fred, you know, and they might actually ask your name, and you know they do all that stuff, because it makes you feel like, okay, we're in here together.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, you said something, john, that I've been thinking, which is it's a matter of the heart. What's our attitude towards these people when they walk through the door? Do we really care? And that comes back to, like the whole clothing thing. Right, like, wear nice clothes to church? Well, wear what is going to show respect to God, certainly, but it comes down to a matter of the heart. Does it really matter if I wear something really nice but my heart isn't there? No, it doesn't. It doesn't. What's of most concern is where my heart's at and visitors. Anybody, I think when you have a conversation with someone, can tell where your heart's at. Do you really care about that person?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't have stats here. Okay, we don't have a conversion rate.
Speaker 1:Well, sometimes I'm like I wish we had a conversion rate, but I do know one stat is 100% of people will not return if they do not feel welcome, right? I mean, we know that that's easy. This is a voluntary thing. You're not getting some sort of handout. You're gonna come if you wanna be here. So if they can tell by any stretch of the imagination, any feeling that they're not honored to be there or we do not love the fact that they're in our presence.
Speaker 2:Honored is a good word. I mean that gets back to our text in Romans 12 and verse 10, that in honor giving preference to one another. It's not that complicated. I mean, if you're at home and say your wife invited a few people over and you're like, okay, I did the lawn this morning, I helped clean up, she's cooking food. People are coming over when they knock on the door and the dog starts barking and she lets people in, are you just gonna sit there and keep watching TV? No, you're gonna get up and acknowledge that they've entered your house. Now, if you don't like them, you might go back to watching TV, but the honorable the way you show honor to them is, I'm gonna acknowledge that you've entered my house and I'm gonna make you feel welcome. So that's very intuitive when it's at home. It should be as intuitive when we're with our church home.
Speaker 3:What a great analogy, kyle. They're walking into our house. I mean, they are as far as the church goes. If we call ourselves a church family, then that's where we meet. You know our house, and when they walk in, we wanna make them feel welcome.
Speaker 2:And there's something powerful about memorizing names. As you said earlier, john, I just wrapped up a week at summer camp. I've been camp director for the last three years and I always make it my job to learn every kid's name. We had 133 kids this year and during lunch most of the time I wouldn't eat because it's camp food and it's not very good. I always lose weight at camp. It's great, but during lunch I'd walk around from table to table and just practice.
Speaker 2:You know I'd memorize their names and I had like a three strikes thing where it's like I couldn't remember. I'd say, okay, show me your name tag. That's strike two. Okay, next time I'll get it right by the end of the week. I feel like I'll be honest with myself. I feel like I could have got 130. There's probably two or three of like the littlest kids that I barely saw or were flew under the radar. But like I tried my hardest and it makes I know it makes a big difference that instead of looking at them or looking for their name tag, like they can tell when you're like stalling to figure out their name If you come up right away and say hey, john, good to see you here.
Speaker 1:Or when they leave, you call them chief or buddy or hey. Sportaid. Hey pal, hey man. You know the, but I totally forgot that name.
Speaker 2:So when we get a repeat visitor, you say their name, say hello, so, and so it's good to have you back.
Speaker 1:That right there will do so much good, and it's hard to even explain why, but that's just yeah but if you actually like with VPS, you have a couple new kids there when they say their name and it's a difficult name. You're like Nathaniel okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, you kind of like, you phonetically say it out slow, okay, and you say it again okay, nathaniel. I'll remember that, nathaniel, you're like, you kind of make that emphasis because, honestly, it has to come off as I'm being acknowledged and that is such an important thing. We go throughout our entire life in this world trying to avoid people at all times, Literally. I do not want to talk to anyone in a grocery store. I don't even want to talk to someone in a Starbucks. Please stop asking me where I'm going and what my day is like.
Speaker 2:We try to Dutch, bro, that's the worst. Have your little rave party and leave me alone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, what's your mom's name? You know like we try to avoid that kind of content and yet that is why so many people feel alone, isolated, forgotten, and we have so many mental health issues. I think it's because we all try to, at some point in time, avoid some of those things. We can't do that in the Lord's church.
Speaker 3:Old saying people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. It's just like screaming in my head right now, and it's true when you care about somebody, they care more about you and what you have to say.
Speaker 2:But one final scripture that comes to my mind is in 1 Corinthians 14. Now, this is a tricky text because it talks about the use of spiritual gifts like speaking in tongues and prophecy and things like that that don't really pertain to the church today. That's a discussion for another episode. But it says here that in verse 23 that if the whole church comes together in one place and all speak with tongues and there comes in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?
Speaker 2:Paul is saying if you don't have someone to translate, if you don't have someone to make sense of what you're saying, visitors are going to come in and think these guys are nuts. I don't want to be here, and so I think the best equivalent I could make is like in Bible class. If you've got your little pet topic, your little hobby topic that you always like to bring up, maybe a Bible class is in the place for it. Or as a teacher, if someone keeps bringing up something like that's just not productive and a visitor would be so confused at what you're even talking about. Just move the class along and say let me talk to you afterwards. We'll get together offline and chat about this some more, but maybe Bible class isn't the place. We can only go so far in explaining everything we do every single Sunday, but we should avoid doing things that would be knowingly confusing to a visitor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so, since Sunday morning I would say most of the time is where you're going to have more visitors or more people in general, I think the things you do in worship are so important to do with that mindset. The greeting, that would be really inviting right and not be too flowery and too anything for as if we're speaking to members only, I think. The song selection a lot of times I like to do new songs. I'm going to do some new songs here Sunday night, but Sunday morning it's important to not everyone knows that song, so of course they wouldn't know it, but does it sound like everyone knows the song? Does the singing sound well put together? Are they uplifted by that? The sermon selection Sunday mornings looking at you of the year, is it too in depth into a series of something that they might miss out of? I know a lot of times we'll do series on Sunday nights and things like this, because Sunday mornings you might get one off visitors.
Speaker 1:So I just think that the way we think about worship is also really important. Well, and even.
Speaker 2:Something I really appreciate here is that we don't do announcements first. Yeah, that would be from a visitor standpoint. You walk in and the very first people.
Speaker 2:Yeah exactly who are these people. The very first thing is you're taken out of it. Someone gets up, welcomes them, reads a scripture, says a prayer. We're already right into the worship, and that's something I really appreciate here that at other churches I mean, I don't want to throw stones or criticize, but maybe just think about from a visitor's perspective if that's the best way to start Wrapping up this episode. I'd just like to finish by turning it around for you, the listener. Are you someone that is interested in going to church, but maybe it seems intimidating to you? I would hope that you would give it a few tries, that if you visit a church, just understand that if it didn't go exactly the way you wanted to give a little bit of grace and understand that people are probably just eager to have a visitor and sometimes, well, maybe they get like all excited like JoJo, the idiot circus boy with a pretty new pet.
Speaker 2:Just understand that. Maybe they're just very eager and in that excitement it comes across as too much or intimidating or just like you want them to back off, or maybe you heard something that was confusing. But my advice is, if you're visiting a church, give it a few visits, even if your first visit didn't go very well. Show some grace, give it a few tries and try to get to know them and also make sure the church you're visiting sounds like the one you read about in the Bible. Read the Book of Acts. Read about the church in the Book of Acts and try to find a church that sounds like what they do in that book. Well, Kyle.
Speaker 3:This has been a really insightful episode and, I think, a needed one too, for us to remember our visitors and what it takes to really make visitors feel welcome when they visit the church as our listeners. We hope that this has been a valuable episode for you. If you liked what you heard, share it with your friends like subscribe. Well, we won't see you next time, but hopefully you'll be there.
Speaker 2:And, as always, thanks for watching. But seriously, if you have like loud kids, just stay home.
Speaker 3:Where do you think I was this morning, if a?
Speaker 2:visitor walks in with loud kids, scowl at them and point to the cry room.
Speaker 3:We should definitely label the cry room. John, let's get on.
Speaker 1:Why I wear the cardigans with holes in them. You know, I just I want to bring it down one level. Right, I don't want to act too, too dressed up.
Speaker 3:You want to pretend like you're from Sanger.
Speaker 1:I roll around in the dirt like a pig pen for a minute.
Speaker 2:You know that's the ranchers.
Speaker 1:Here's the ranchers.
